Editing HD footage on a SD timeline. Problem.

John Fante · October 17th, 2008, 09:23 PM

Hi Steve, I've found that I get excellent results doing edits in the native XDCam EX timeline and then doing an HD export of the final edit directly out of FCS. I use (File/Export/QT Movie/"Current Settings & Make Movie Self Contained". Then I drop this movie into an DVDSP project set to SD settings. The results are great. I've tried the other route dropping the HD into an SD timeline and can't see any difference in the results. I've also tried using Compressor with no noticeable improvement. KISS applies, I suppose.

As for your problems editing with erratic results in FCS, I'd be certain that your timeline corresponds to the settings of your clips. To do this, as you no doubt know, you can let FCS do the settings by creating a new sequence and editing in a clip from your HD footage. If the settings aren't the same, a FCS dialog will come up asking if you want to reset them to the clip's settings, which I'm happy to do. I've been cutting EX1 footage on a MPB 2.2 core duo for several months now and haven't seen any glitches or erratic behavior similar to what you've mentioned, so I suspect it's something in your setups.

Hope this helps. As with so much of this stuff there are any number of ways to the same conclusion.

Steve Shovlar · October 18th, 2008, 02:07 AM

Hi John thanks for the info.

I have now made a dvd by editing in HD timeline, exporting to sd timeline and out via compressor. Looking at the results of comparing this method and going from a HD timeline straight to compressor is striking.

The DVD striaght from the HD timeline to compressor is slightly muddy and looks poor. Lots of mosquito noise around moving images.

The DVD which has gone from the HD timeline to SD timeline, rendered and out to Compressor looks very clean, much less mosquito noise and a cleaner all round image I am very happy with.

In the next day or so i will try the other method of making a QT movie and compare which I think is best.

Dominik Seibold · October 18th, 2008, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Shovlar

The DVD striaght from the HD timeline to compressor is slightly muddy and looks poor. Lots of mosquito noise around moving images.

The DVD which has gone from the HD timeline to SD timeline, rendered and out to Compressor looks very clean, much less mosquito noise and a cleaner all round image I am very happy with.

This makes absolutely no sense. Are you sure the mpeg2-settings were each time the same during these tests? Were the output-resolutions each time 720x576? Progressive or interlaced output?

Jon Braeley · October 19th, 2008, 06:28 AM

The recommended method - well, one that I adhere to is:

I edit in native HD (whatever flavor, XDCam Ex, ProResHQ are my main two). I use a second HDTV monitor using intensity card (to view the canvas window), so editing in SD is a downgrade for me. I then send out a Quicktime export, using the same settings as the timeline - video only. I make my .MOV a reference movie so FCP is not overtaxed. You can also export a self-contained movie for archiving later - but it's a wopping file size.
I then import the .MOV into compressor and process in SD - usually 5.5 to 6.0 bitrate. This goes to a .mv2 file which I use in DVDSP. I can batch process in Compressor and just let it run in the background - usually I process overnight, as I often work on 60 to 90 minute movies and I run a first version dual-MacPro.
The audio I send to Soundtrack Pro from FCP, where after mixing it will export out as AC3 in surround.

I get stunning results - on my 1080p 50inch TV - the SD looks great. This is the method that Apple techs recommend and one I have seen many times in seminars I have been to.

Steve Shovlar · October 19th, 2008, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominik Seibold

This makes absolutely no sense. Are you sure the mpeg2-settings were each time the same during these tests? Were the output-resolutions each time 720x576? Progressive or interlaced output?

Totaly the same. Why bother going through all this rigmarole if sending the footage directly from a HD timeline produces perfectly good dvds? ( Which it doesn't)

The purpose is to get the best loking dvd possible, and by dropping the hd footage on an sd timeline, render and then out, gives a much better looking dvd.

Dominik Seibold · October 19th, 2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Shovlar

, and by dropping the hd footage on an sd timeline, render and then out, gives a much better looking dvd.

This can't be, because the mpeg2-encoder is the same in both cases and Compressors rescaler is at least as good as FCPs, so there must be something faulty with your testing.
Can you post short example-results of both workflows? Perhaps then I can tell what the matter is.

Steve Shovlar · October 19th, 2008, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominik Seibold

This can't be, because the mpeg2-encoder is the same in both cases and Compressors rescaler is at least as good as FCPs, so there must be something faulty with your testing.
Can you post short example-results of both workflows? Perhaps then I can tell what the matter is.

This is the exact method I used.
Outputting Standard Definition in FCP from the Sony XDCam EX1

Aleksey Severuykhin · December 13th, 2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Braeley

The recommended method - well, one that I adhere to is:

I get stunning results - on my 1080p 50inch TV - the SD looks great. This is the method that Apple techs recommend and one I have seen many times in seminars I have been to.

Jon,would you workflow work for ntsc?

October 17th, 2008, 09:23 PM	#16
John Fante New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 15	Making an HD to SD DVD in DVDSP Hi Steve, I've found that I get excellent results doing edits in the native XDCam EX timeline and then doing an HD export of the final edit directly out of FCS. I use (File/Export/QT Movie/"Current Settings & Make Movie Self Contained". Then I drop this movie into an DVDSP project set to SD settings. The results are great. I've tried the other route dropping the HD into an SD timeline and can't see any difference in the results. I've also tried using Compressor with no noticeable improvement. KISS applies, I suppose. As for your problems editing with erratic results in FCS, I'd be certain that your timeline corresponds to the settings of your clips. To do this, as you no doubt know, you can let FCS do the settings by creating a new sequence and editing in a clip from your HD footage. If the settings aren't the same, a FCS dialog will come up asking if you want to reset them to the clip's settings, which I'm happy to do. I've been cutting EX1 footage on a MPB 2.2 core duo for several months now and haven't seen any glitches or erratic behavior similar to what you've mentioned, so I suspect it's something in your setups. Hope this helps. As with so much of this stuff there are any number of ways to the same conclusion.

October 18th, 2008, 02:07 AM	#17
Steve Shovlar Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dorset UK Posts: 697	Hi John thanks for the info. I have now made a dvd by editing in HD timeline, exporting to sd timeline and out via compressor. Looking at the results of comparing this method and going from a HD timeline straight to compressor is striking. The DVD striaght from the HD timeline to compressor is slightly muddy and looks poor. Lots of mosquito noise around moving images. The DVD which has gone from the HD timeline to SD timeline, rendered and out to Compressor looks very clean, much less mosquito noise and a cleaner all round image I am very happy with. In the next day or so i will try the other method of making a QT movie and compare which I think is best.

October 19th, 2008, 06:28 AM	#19
Jon Braeley Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 528	The recommended method - well, one that I adhere to is: I edit in native HD (whatever flavor, XDCam Ex, ProResHQ are my main two). I use a second HDTV monitor using intensity card (to view the canvas window), so editing in SD is a downgrade for me. I then send out a Quicktime export, using the same settings as the timeline - video only. I make my .MOV a reference movie so FCP is not overtaxed. You can also export a self-contained movie for archiving later - but it's a wopping file size. I then import the .MOV into compressor and process in SD - usually 5.5 to 6.0 bitrate. This goes to a .mv2 file which I use in DVDSP. I can batch process in Compressor and just let it run in the background - usually I process overnight, as I often work on 60 to 90 minute movies and I run a first version dual-MacPro. The audio I send to Soundtrack Pro from FCP, where after mixing it will export out as AC3 in surround. I get stunning results - on my 1080p 50inch TV - the SD looks great. This is the method that Apple techs recommend and one I have seen many times in seminars I have been to.