Schneider Optics True-Cut 77mm waste of time at DVinfo.net

Les Nagy · October 15th, 2008, 07:10 PM

I sent back my B+W 486 to B&H and ordered a Schneider True-Cut 750 77mm from Schneider Optics directly on the direct advice given on these forums by Ryan Avery. It does not work, at least in tungsten only light. Examples:

With no filter, halogen lighting, white balanced on white ceiling provide the light diffusion for the up facing lamp
http://www.atsi.ca/ex3/filter_off.jpg

Same setup with the filter attached
http://www.atsi.ca/ex3/filter_on.jpg

The 486 from B+W worked and made the bag and towel as black as the other items in the shot that show black no matter what. The problem with the 486 was some green vignetting which I wanted to avoid having to correct.

If anyone is contemplating getting the True-Cut, hold off buying it until this is resolved. As it stands, it appears to do nothing in the lighting conditions described. It might have an effect with different light sources although I doubt it.

Barry J. Anwender · October 15th, 2008, 07:44 PM

Les, I e-mailed Schneider Optics directly, requesting price and delivery for the new 77mm True-Cut filter. I also asked if the their new True-Cut filter has resolved/corrected the "green cast" inherent in the 486 filter. A week now and no reply. So it is wait and see if they will deliver the goods.

Les Nagy · October 15th, 2008, 07:47 PM

I saw no bad fringing in my short testing, but it does not cut the IR contamination at all as far as I can see. I would hold off..... Too bad I don't have the 486 still to compare.

Brian Cassar · October 15th, 2008, 11:31 PM

Les, when one says that a green cast (vignetting) appears with the 486, does it refer only to when one attaches a wide angle attachment or does it also appears on the EX1/3 stock lens when the lens is at its maximum wide angle?

And how bad is bad? Do you happen to have a screen shot showing this green cast?

According to your posted pics the True Cut is just a very expensive, useless piece of lens protector!!!!

Thanks

Brian

Les Nagy · October 15th, 2008, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Cassar

Les, when one says that a green cast (vignetting) appears with the 486, does it refer only to when one attaches a wide angle attachment or does it also appears on the EX1/3 stock lens when the lens is at its maximum wide angle?

The 486 caused the green vignetting on my camera with the stock lens at the wide end of the range. Fixing or at least partially correcting for the green cast at the edges is possible but correcting for the black IR contamination problem is not without some pretty destructive effects on the image

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Cassar

And how bad is bad? Do you happen to have a screen shot showing this green cast?

Sorry I didn't keep any shots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Cassar

According to your posted pics the True Cut is just a very expensive, useless piece of lens protector!!!!

It appears so for me at this point :(

Ted OMalley · October 16th, 2008, 08:03 AM

Les,

That's a real pretty bag you have there!

I can't believe that the filter made no difference - I was shocked.

Ryan Avery · October 16th, 2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Nagy

I sent back my B+W 486 to B&H and ordered a Schneider True-Cut 750 77mm from Schneider Optics directly on the direct advice given on these forums by Ryan Avery. It does not work, at least in tungsten only light. Examples:

With no filter, halogen lighting, white balanced on white ceiling provide the light diffusion for the up facing lamp
http://www.atsi.ca/ex3/filter_off.jpg

Same setup with the filter attached
http://www.atsi.ca/ex3/filter_on.jpg

The 486 from B+W worked and made the bag and towel as black as the other items in the shot that show black no matter what. The problem with the 486 was some green vignetting which I wanted to avoid having to correct.

If anyone is contemplating getting the True-Cut, hold off buying it until this is resolved. As it stands, it appears to do nothing in the lighting conditions described. It might have an effect with different light sources although I doubt it.

Les,

I can honestly say that we have sold many of these with several extremely satisfied customers. Yours is the first problem I have seen with this so one of two things has happened. Either you received a filter that is somehow not to spec or you have used it improperly. It appears from your tests that you did this under a controlled environment but I cannot say for sure until I test your particular filter myself.

The True-Cut IR 750 requires that it is the first filter the light hits. This because it reflects the IR light. If there is another filter in front of it, it will not work. Also if there is another UV filter in the series it will diminish the effects.

Please see our other extensive threads as to why the 486 is not the best solution for video cameras. It works great on still cameras. The 486 was designed to cut off around 680nm which creates a green cast on the images when a wider angle lens is used such as the lens on the EX1/EX3. The True-Cut IR 750 does not have this problem because it cuts off at 750nm. Because of the higher cut point, the filter helps avoid the near IR spectrum that contaminates the image.

To be clear, it appears that you have a defective filter and I would send it back and we will replace with a new filter. I would encourage anyone out there who owns this filter and is satisfied to post your results. I could post my own images but I think a customer review would do better for us all.

Schneider Optics has no interest in distributing a filter that does not work for the intended purpose and these filters were highly tested before bringing them to market. We offer the finest quality products for professional use. Please contact me via email for any other details.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Les Nagy · October 16th, 2008, 09:50 AM

Ryan:

I want you to understand that I was making no accusations. I understand that errors in production can occur, as well as variance in customer use and equipment. I can assure you that the filter was installed on the front of the stock lens. There is no other non-stock Sony optical element in the optical path.

As I said, the 486 worked in that it removed the brown and purple tinting of black items but caused the green edge problem you refer to. That is why I returned it.

I still need to correct for this problem so I hope a replacement will work. I have already contacted the Van Nuys location where I purchased this from and have an RMA. Hopefully I can get a working replacement fairly quickly.

Jay Gladwell · October 16th, 2008, 09:57 AM

I'm having trouble finding a 77mm version of the True-Cut 750 on the Schneider site.

Steven Thomas · October 16th, 2008, 09:58 AM

I'm interested in the 77mm True-Cut IR 750.
Les, let us know how it works out for you.

Ryan, as always, thanks for the info.

Les Nagy · October 16th, 2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Gladwell

I'm having trouble finding a 77mm version of the True-Cut 750 on the Schneider site.

That is because it just came into production. Any filters that Ryan refers to are not the 77mm size I believe. I called in my order to Schneider Optics and waited till they got one in stock.

Jay Gladwell · October 16th, 2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Nagy

That is because it just came into production. Any filters that Ryan refers to are not the 77mm size I believe. I called in my order to Schneider Optics and waited till they got one in stock.

That makes me feel a little better. Not much, but a little.

Ned Soltz · October 16th, 2008, 10:49 AM

I've been working with the IR-750 for a couple of months now in preparation for an article on EX-3 as well as for presentation on EX-3 at an upcoming event in LA.

I will be putting up some results but what I can say at this point is that I strongly recommend it for EX shooters.

Jay Gladwell · October 16th, 2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned Soltz

I've been working with the IR-750 for a couple of months now in preparation for an article on EX-3 as well as for presentation on EX-3 at an upcoming event in LA.

I will be putting up some results but what I can say at this point is that I strongly recommend it for EX shooters.

So where does one go to buy one of these filters?

Les Nagy · October 16th, 2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned Soltz

I've been working with the IR-750 for a couple of months now in preparation for an article on EX-3 as well as for presentation on EX-3 at an upcoming event in LA.

I will be putting up some results but what I can say at this point is that I strongly recommend it for EX shooters.

I would very much like to see your test results as soon as possible. It is obvious that with my camera it does not work. Based on a conversation I have had with the optics engineer responsible for this filter at Schneider Optics, it is unlikely that this filter will fix my problem and that the one I have now is not defective. It could still be defective but our assessment of it is that it isn't defective and just is not suited to the issue I am seeing.

October 15th, 2008, 07:10 PM	#1
Les Nagy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: A Canadian in Canada, and sometimes Chile Posts: 265	Schneider Optics True-Cut 77mm waste of time I sent back my B+W 486 to B&H and ordered a Schneider True-Cut 750 77mm from Schneider Optics directly on the direct advice given on these forums by Ryan Avery. It does not work, at least in tungsten only light. Examples: With no filter, halogen lighting, white balanced on white ceiling provide the light diffusion for the up facing lamp http://www.atsi.ca/ex3/filter_off.jpg Same setup with the filter attached http://www.atsi.ca/ex3/filter_on.jpg The 486 from B+W worked and made the bag and towel as black as the other items in the shot that show black no matter what. The problem with the 486 was some green vignetting which I wanted to avoid having to correct. If anyone is contemplating getting the True-Cut, hold off buying it until this is resolved. As it stands, it appears to do nothing in the lighting conditions described. It might have an effect with different light sources although I doubt it.

October 16th, 2008, 08:03 AM	#6
Ted OMalley Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 596	Les, That's a real pretty bag you have there! I can't believe that the filter made no difference - I was shocked. __________________ Sony EX3, Vegas 9.0 64bit, Windows 7(64), Core i7, 12GB, RAID1 & 0, HotSwap SATA, 30" LCD(2560x1600)-GTX285 & 24" LCD(1360x768)-7800GT

October 15th, 2008, 07:44 PM	#2
Barry J. Anwender Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 382	Les, I e-mailed Schneider Optics directly, requesting price and delivery for the new 77mm True-Cut filter. I also asked if the their new True-Cut filter has resolved/corrected the "green cast" inherent in the 486 filter. A week now and no reply. So it is wait and see if they will deliver the goods.

October 15th, 2008, 07:47 PM	#3
Les Nagy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: A Canadian in Canada, and sometimes Chile Posts: 265	I saw no bad fringing in my short testing, but it does not cut the IR contamination at all as far as I can see. I would hold off..... Too bad I don't have the 486 still to compare.

October 15th, 2008, 11:31 PM	#4
Brian Cassar Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Malta Posts: 306	Les, when one says that a green cast (vignetting) appears with the 486, does it refer only to when one attaches a wide angle attachment or does it also appears on the EX1/3 stock lens when the lens is at its maximum wide angle? And how bad is bad? Do you happen to have a screen shot showing this green cast? According to your posted pics the True Cut is just a very expensive, useless piece of lens protector!!!! Thanks Brian

October 16th, 2008, 09:50 AM	#8
Les Nagy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: A Canadian in Canada, and sometimes Chile Posts: 265	Ryan: I want you to understand that I was making no accusations. I understand that errors in production can occur, as well as variance in customer use and equipment. I can assure you that the filter was installed on the front of the stock lens. There is no other non-stock Sony optical element in the optical path. As I said, the 486 worked in that it removed the brown and purple tinting of black items but caused the green edge problem you refer to. That is why I returned it. I still need to correct for this problem so I hope a replacement will work. I have already contacted the Van Nuys location where I purchased this from and have an RMA. Hopefully I can get a working replacement fairly quickly.

October 16th, 2008, 09:57 AM	#9
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	I'm having trouble finding a 77mm version of the True-Cut 750 on the Schneider site.

October 16th, 2008, 09:58 AM	#10
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	I'm interested in the 77mm True-Cut IR 750. Les, let us know how it works out for you. Ryan, as always, thanks for the info.

October 16th, 2008, 10:49 AM	#13
Ned Soltz Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Teaneck, NJ Posts: 659	I've been working with the IR-750 for a couple of months now in preparation for an article on EX-3 as well as for presentation on EX-3 at an upcoming event in LA. I will be putting up some results but what I can say at this point is that I strongly recommend it for EX shooters.