New strange image problem with my EX1 at DVinfo.net

Ola Christoffersson · October 7th, 2008, 08:30 AM

I have had my camera since december and just discovered a problem I have never seen before:

Sometimes, quite often, there is a disturbance in the image. It looks very similar to the rolling effect when recording with a 50 fps shutter in 60 Hz lights. Only this happens outdoors in daylight.

Here you can see a clip:

Rolling shadow problem EX1 By Ola Christoffersson On ExposureRoom

I have not seen this before in the hundreds of hours of video I have recorded since I got the camera. It only showed up last week. Factors that could be involved here is my new Letus adapter and the fact that the camera has been to Sony for repairs and 1.11 firmware upgrade.

At first I though it was some kind of interference with my new Letus but to my big surprise it is still there when I take the Letus off.

It is coming and going and I cannot make out a typical scenario when it happens. It seems like it is starting after moving the camera or iris (maybe) and then settles down after a few seconds. I am not certain though!

I thought I'd ask you guys for help before I call Sony. Anyone seen anything like this? What could it be? Is the camera broken.

I should also add that it happens with shutter both on and off (180 degrees).

Steven Thomas · October 7th, 2008, 08:42 AM

Ola,
I'm not sure how ofter you're seeing this issue, but based on that footage I would send the camera in to Sony along with a CD that has an this example footage.
This looks like it's something to do with the CMOS rolling shutter.

Dave Morrison · October 7th, 2008, 08:57 AM

A dumb question, but is the Motion Stabilization turned on when this happens?

Jay Gladwell · October 7th, 2008, 09:09 AM

Ola, this is what I was seeing in my brand new EX3 just a few days ago (I posted a question about it "Rolling Shadow"). You've described it (and shown it) perfectly!

To make a long story short, to fix another problem I wound up using the "All Reset" button in the Others menu. Since I've done that, the camera hasn't had that problem.

Hope this helps!

Ola Christoffersson · October 7th, 2008, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Morrison

A dumb question, but is the Motion Stabilization turned on when this happens?

It is off.

Ola Christoffersson · October 7th, 2008, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Gladwell

Ola, this is what I was seeing in my brand new EX3 just a few days ago (I posted a question about it "Rolling Shadow"). You've described it (and shown it) perfectly!

To make a long story short, to fix another problem I wound up using the "All Reset" button in the Others menu. Since I've done that, the camera hasn't had that problem.

Hope this helps!

That's very interesting. I will try that tomorrow! Thank you for your help.

Alister Chapman · October 7th, 2008, 09:54 AM

Is the flicker reduction turned off? Depending on your region settings flicker reduction can cause flicker!

Ola Christoffersson · October 7th, 2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

Is the flicker reduction turned off? Depending on your region settings flicker reduction can cause flicker!

Ah!! That could be it. I believe it is on automatic. I have been experimenting with it when filming 60 Hz computer monitors recently so I might have changed it. I will check tomorrow and let you know if that is it...

Jay Gladwell · October 7th, 2008, 08:21 PM

Since I had this same problem, I took this issue over the Sony Vegas forum to see if anyone there had experienced this same problem.

One poster said the "rolling shutter" effect could be discounted because the illumination is constant. She said it looked like a defect in readout, possibly confirmed if the All Reset fixed it.

She also said electrical interference causes such effects (radars particularly, and mobile transmitters) -- that can be checked by it being location dependant (unless it's your cell phone).

Another poster wrote that he had this with his EX1, in daylight as well as under lights. He said that turning off Flicker Reduction in the Camera Menu seems to have cured it.

I contacted the dealer (Alpha Cine) and they are looking into it. They even went so far as to contact Sony. Will post the answer as soon as I get it.

John Woo · October 7th, 2008, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Gladwell

Ola, this is what I was seeing in my brand new EX3 just a few days ago (I posted a question about it "Rolling Shadow"). You've described it (and shown it) perfectly!

To make a long story short, to fix another problem I wound up using the "All Reset" button in the Others menu. Since I've done that, the camera hasn't had that problem.

Hope this helps!

May I know when you execute the "All Rest" button, will all the settings return to factory default? And will the profile setting be gone too?

Back to Ola's issue, I have also encountered this under indoor lighting, and my most recent encounter was during an outdoor shoot 2 weeks ago. As it was an imprtant shoot, I was panic and don't know what to do, then I quickly switched to full auto and the flickering went away. Switching back to manual mode and dod not see the flickering again. Strange!!

Steven Thomas · October 7th, 2008, 09:19 PM

Actually indoor lighting is possible. We all know these CMOS rolling shutter based cameras can show this exact condition under older low-frequency fluorescent or HMI lights.

Adam Reuter · October 7th, 2008, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ola Christoffersson

Ah!! That could be it. I believe it is on automatic. I have been experimenting with it when filming 60 Hz computer monitors recently so I might have changed it. I will check tomorrow and let you know if that is it...

That could be it. Flicker reduction was designed for shooting under flourescent lighting (non-production, i.e. crappy). If you want to shoot computer monitors use the ECS shutter mode.

Serena Steuart · October 7th, 2008, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Woo

when you execute the "All Reset" button, will all the settings return to factory default? And will the profile setting be gone too?

Yes, everything goes back to factory default.

Jon Sands · October 7th, 2008, 10:03 PM

I had the exact same problem, resolved it 100% by turning off flicker reduction.

Mike Mona · October 7th, 2008, 11:26 PM

May it be you cellular phone? I noticed when the phone is checking the cell, it is buzzing into my computer speakers from 3 to 5 feet away. My old CRT monitor was doing same rolling flicker because of my cell phone.

I can not test it myself right now but I suggest to put your cell phone close to the camera while recording, ring the phone, and check the recording to see if it had any interference or not.

thx,
Mike

October 7th, 2008, 08:30 AM	#1
Ola Christoffersson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 462	New strange image problem with my EX1 I have had my camera since december and just discovered a problem I have never seen before: Sometimes, quite often, there is a disturbance in the image. It looks very similar to the rolling effect when recording with a 50 fps shutter in 60 Hz lights. Only this happens outdoors in daylight. Here you can see a clip: Rolling shadow problem EX1 By Ola Christoffersson On ExposureRoom I have not seen this before in the hundreds of hours of video I have recorded since I got the camera. It only showed up last week. Factors that could be involved here is my new Letus adapter and the fact that the camera has been to Sony for repairs and 1.11 firmware upgrade. At first I though it was some kind of interference with my new Letus but to my big surprise it is still there when I take the Letus off. It is coming and going and I cannot make out a typical scenario when it happens. It seems like it is starting after moving the camera or iris (maybe) and then settles down after a few seconds. I am not certain though! I thought I'd ask you guys for help before I call Sony. Anyone seen anything like this? What could it be? Is the camera broken. I should also add that it happens with shutter both on and off (180 degrees).

October 7th, 2008, 08:57 AM	#3
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	A dumb question, but is the Motion Stabilization turned on when this happens? __________________ EX1, Nikon D750 http://www.morrisonphotographics.com http://www.heritagefilm.com

October 7th, 2008, 09:54 AM	#7
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Is the flicker reduction turned off? Depending on your region settings flicker reduction can cause flicker! __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

October 7th, 2008, 09:19 PM	#11
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Actually indoor lighting is possible. We all know these CMOS rolling shutter based cameras can show this exact condition under older low-frequency fluorescent or HMI lights. Last edited by Steven Thomas; October 7th, 2008 at 10:04 PM. Reason: typo. lol

October 7th, 2008, 08:42 AM	#2
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Ola, I'm not sure how ofter you're seeing this issue, but based on that footage I would send the camera in to Sony along with a CD that has an this example footage. This looks like it's something to do with the CMOS rolling shutter.

October 7th, 2008, 09:09 AM	#4
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Ola, this is what I was seeing in my brand new EX3 just a few days ago (I posted a question about it "Rolling Shadow"). You've described it (and shown it) perfectly! To make a long story short, to fix another problem I wound up using the "All Reset" button in the Others menu. Since I've done that, the camera hasn't had that problem. Hope this helps!

October 7th, 2008, 08:21 PM	#9
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Since I had this same problem, I took this issue over the Sony Vegas forum to see if anyone there had experienced this same problem. One poster said the "rolling shutter" effect could be discounted because the illumination is constant. She said it looked like a defect in readout, possibly confirmed if the All Reset fixed it. She also said electrical interference causes such effects (radars particularly, and mobile transmitters) -- that can be checked by it being location dependant (unless it's your cell phone). Another poster wrote that he had this with his EX1, in daylight as well as under lights. He said that turning off Flicker Reduction in the Camera Menu seems to have cured it. I contacted the dealer (Alpha Cine) and they are looking into it. They even went so far as to contact Sony. Will post the answer as soon as I get it.

October 7th, 2008, 10:03 PM	#14
Jon Sands Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 107	I had the exact same problem, resolved it 100% by turning off flicker reduction.

October 7th, 2008, 11:26 PM	#15
Mike Mona Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tustin California Posts: 33	May it be you cellular phone? I noticed when the phone is checking the cell, it is buzzing into my computer speakers from 3 to 5 feet away. My old CRT monitor was doing same rolling flicker because of my cell phone. I can not test it myself right now but I suggest to put your cell phone close to the camera while recording, ring the phone, and check the recording to see if it had any interference or not. thx, Mike