Circular Polarisers

Buck Forester · September 21st, 2008, 08:54 PM

I also have a B+W Circular Polarizer, 77mm threaded screw-on. I played around with it today but for some reason it doesn't seem the polarizer has quite the same effect on my video as it does on my still camera. Maybe it would on high contrast water, but it really didn't make my blue skies pop much more than bare lens, and just like with my still camera, at full wide angle it makes the blue sky look uneven. I need to do some more testing under different conditions, preferably in the wilds, but so far it's not a "must have" like it is for my still camera. I also haven't yet done much testing with my GND filters which I use so often with my still camera, but the one time I did the results weren't the same either. I'm finding videography and still photography more different than I thought it would be in terms of exposure/focus/motion. But I'm lovin' 'em both!

Paul Curtis · September 22nd, 2008, 03:35 AM

Here're a few frames, it's just from an old shoot as i haven't time to record an A and B but the top two have the pola on and the bottom has it off once i realised what was happening.

Pretty much the same time of day, same conditions and i had the EX1 hood on with the pola on the lens (partly for ND as someone had left the ND grads behind and partly for some shots later on which really would need a pola with water/glass).

This clearly shows the obliteration of contrast from any shooting angle, if the sun was in frame or nearby then you'd see lots of white bright spots like a lens flare.

I didn't realise how bad the contrast loss and messed up exposure was until reviewing footage later, the LCD wasn't so bad.

cheers
paul

Charles Papert · September 22nd, 2008, 09:30 AM

The only reason I can think of for a polarizing filter to demonstrate low contrast and "white spots" would be that it was either quite dirty or damaged. I'll pass this thread on to the folks at Schneider for review.

Dave Morrison · September 22nd, 2008, 10:09 AM

That's the same thing I was thinking, but I didn't want to accuse somebody of having something SO simple as being the cause of their problems. Looking at the shots, I can see that some of them were shot toward the sun which will exacerbate ANY crud on the filter. You could use a dirty ND filter and get the same exact result. If the filter WAS clean, I'm stumped.

Sebastien Thomas · September 23rd, 2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Morrison

That's the same thing I was thinking, but I didn't want to accuse somebody of having something SO simple as being the cause of their problems. Looking at the shots, I can see that some of them were shot toward the sun which will exacerbate ANY crud on the filter. You could use a dirty ND filter and get the same exact result. If the filter WAS clean, I'm stumped.

Maybe it's a Pro-Mist polarizer... new model ?
:)

Benjamin Eckstein · September 28th, 2008, 08:07 AM

I was about to order a screw on pola for the EX-1 when I saw this thread. Does this seem to be an unusual case or do people have a recommendation for a better screw on pola for the EX-1?

Thanks,
Benjamin

Dave Morrison · September 28th, 2008, 05:04 PM

I shot some more tests with the one I cited above and I'm very happy with it. No changes in contrast that I noticed. I'll try to post some clips later, but I'm happy with mine....apart from the $170+ price. :-0

Ryan Avery · September 29th, 2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Curtis

Is anyone succesfully using a circular polariser from a stills camera? I have a B+W circular polariser but it generates a lot of internal reflections from what i can tell. Drastically lowering contrast and creating white (reflection) spots.

I've put together quite a nice system using the Lee filter system for medium format/SLR, which has a 77mm screw on adaptor with a filter holder. The 77mm adaptor comes through the filter adaptor so i can add a circular polariser as well any filters (ND grad combinations mostly).

All works pretty neatly save for this B+W Pola. And the problem exists even if you screw it directly on the lens and put the EX hood on top.

Is this an issue with other 77mm threaded polas or unique to this make?

cheers
paul

Paul,

The problems you are having are either from a dirty filter (seems unlikely from what you are saying) or a delaminating filter. If the polarization foil in a filter seperates from the glass, you can experience this problem. Also be aware that some B+W filters shipped from our factory for a short time had a slight film on them as a by product of the coating process. This problem was solved some months ago but some dealers still have these filters on their shelves. Be sure that you clean the filter very well with a cleaning solution and the problem is solved.

As far as other causes, ensure that you only have the B+W polarizer on the camera and nothing else. A lens hood works well but to minimize flare issues as well.

Our Schneider True-Pol (a completely different material) is the industry standard in Hollywood. We have an extensive list of major motion pictures, TV series, and other productions that only use our True-Pol filter. It is our number one selling filter. I have never heard of a problem with these.

Either way, if you are truly unsatisfied with the results of your filter, please return it to the dealer as we offer a 10 year warranty on our filters to USA authorized resellers. Please check our website to see if you bought this from an authorized USA dealer.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Arthur Hancock · October 5th, 2008, 02:19 PM

Incredible! I've had a B+W circular polarizer since February, used it a couple of times, hated the washed-out faded results, and have had it parked in my bag ever since. I checked the thing and it didn't appear to be dirty and I was having such good results with the EX-1 I basically forgot about it. Then I read this thread and Avery's recent post and decided to give the damn thing a cleaning. Wow. Suddenly I have a kick-ass polarizer just in time for leaf season! When I looked at the bed the filter sits in I noticed black dirty-looking rings that aren't there in my UV box.

I've used Century Optics for years and this is the first problem I've encountered.

Andy Schocken · October 5th, 2008, 05:07 PM

I have a B&W cp as well- just used it for the first time a few days ago. Have a look at the uneven chroma in the sky in this shot. I understand that the sky is overexposed on the right, but is this the way the filter should react in that situation?

Dave Morrison · October 5th, 2008, 05:31 PM

Andy, without getting too snarky with a reply, I don't think you are using the Pola in the manner it was designed to work best. This scene is SO far outside of the Pola's effective lighting scenario that I doubt you'd see any polarization effect anyway. What were you hoping to see by using the filter in this shot? The effect of a polarizing filter is seen best when the Sun is at a 90 degree angle to the angle you are shooting. So, if you were shooting at, say, 1 o'clock in the afternoon, the filter would show its' deepest effect on your shot when you camera would be pointed almost due North or NNE. Or, put another way, if the Sun was at your back, point the filter/camera in a line running parallel to your shadow. It's useless on a cloudy day apart from removing reflections from glass windows or very calm water. Or, if you just need even more ND than is available in the camera, you can use it for that, too.

Andy Schocken · October 5th, 2008, 05:36 PM

when you're shooting a verite documentary, you don't take filters on and off for individual shots- you either use it for a scene or you don't.

Dave Morrison · October 5th, 2008, 05:45 PM

The only problem with that approach is that a Polarizing filter needs to be reset every time you change your direction relative to the Sun. It's not exactly a "set it and forget it" kind of filter. As soon as you turn away from the direction you started with (and set your filter for maximum effect) the filter would need to be reset. It's really an effect filter and not a dial-able ND filter.

Andy Schocken · October 5th, 2008, 05:52 PM

that's certainly true, and it's therefore not ideal for verite. at the same time, i've successfully used different polarizers on different cameras in many scenes over the years, and i've never noticed this type of uneven color shift. i suppose it's possible that i've just never noticed it, but i doubt it.

September 22nd, 2008, 03:35 AM	#17
Paul Curtis Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canterbury Posts: 411	Here're a few frames, it's just from an old shoot as i haven't time to record an A and B but the top two have the pola on and the bottom has it off once i realised what was happening. Pretty much the same time of day, same conditions and i had the EX1 hood on with the pola on the lens (partly for ND as someone had left the ND grads behind and partly for some shots later on which really would need a pola with water/glass). This clearly shows the obliteration of contrast from any shooting angle, if the sun was in frame or nearby then you'd see lots of white bright spots like a lens flare. I didn't realise how bad the contrast loss and messed up exposure was until reviewing footage later, the LCD wasn't so bad. cheers paul Attached Thumbnails

September 22nd, 2008, 09:30 AM	#18
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	The only reason I can think of for a polarizing filter to demonstrate low contrast and "white spots" would be that it was either quite dirty or damaged. I'll pass this thread on to the folks at Schneider for review. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

September 22nd, 2008, 10:09 AM	#19
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	That's the same thing I was thinking, but I didn't want to accuse somebody of having something SO simple as being the cause of their problems. Looking at the shots, I can see that some of them were shot toward the sun which will exacerbate ANY crud on the filter. You could use a dirty ND filter and get the same exact result. If the filter WAS clean, I'm stumped. __________________ EX1, Nikon D750 http://www.morrisonphotographics.com http://www.heritagefilm.com

September 28th, 2008, 08:07 AM	#21
Benjamin Eckstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 380 Images: 1	About to order? I was about to order a screw on pola for the EX-1 when I saw this thread. Does this seem to be an unusual case or do people have a recommendation for a better screw on pola for the EX-1? Thanks, Benjamin

September 28th, 2008, 05:04 PM	#22
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	I shot some more tests with the one I cited above and I'm very happy with it. No changes in contrast that I noticed. I'll try to post some clips later, but I'm happy with mine....apart from the $170+ price. :-0 __________________ EX1, Nikon D750 http://www.morrisonphotographics.com http://www.heritagefilm.com

September 21st, 2008, 08:54 PM	#16
Buck Forester Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: California Posts: 230	I also have a B+W Circular Polarizer, 77mm threaded screw-on. I played around with it today but for some reason it doesn't seem the polarizer has quite the same effect on my video as it does on my still camera. Maybe it would on high contrast water, but it really didn't make my blue skies pop much more than bare lens, and just like with my still camera, at full wide angle it makes the blue sky look uneven. I need to do some more testing under different conditions, preferably in the wilds, but so far it's not a "must have" like it is for my still camera. I also haven't yet done much testing with my GND filters which I use so often with my still camera, but the one time I did the results weren't the same either. I'm finding videography and still photography more different than I thought it would be in terms of exposure/focus/motion. But I'm lovin' 'em both!

October 5th, 2008, 02:19 PM	#24
Arthur Hancock Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Highlands North Carolina Posts: 69	Incredible! I've had a B+W circular polarizer since February, used it a couple of times, hated the washed-out faded results, and have had it parked in my bag ever since. I checked the thing and it didn't appear to be dirty and I was having such good results with the EX-1 I basically forgot about it. Then I read this thread and Avery's recent post and decided to give the damn thing a cleaning. Wow. Suddenly I have a kick-ass polarizer just in time for leaf season! When I looked at the bed the filter sits in I noticed black dirty-looking rings that aren't there in my UV box. I've used Century Optics for years and this is the first problem I've encountered.

October 5th, 2008, 05:07 PM	#25
Andy Schocken Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 54	I have a B&W cp as well- just used it for the first time a few days ago. Have a look at the uneven chroma in the sky in this shot. I understand that the sky is overexposed on the right, but is this the way the filter should react in that situation? Attached Thumbnails

October 5th, 2008, 05:31 PM	#26
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	Andy, without getting too snarky with a reply, I don't think you are using the Pola in the manner it was designed to work best. This scene is SO far outside of the Pola's effective lighting scenario that I doubt you'd see any polarization effect anyway. What were you hoping to see by using the filter in this shot? The effect of a polarizing filter is seen best when the Sun is at a 90 degree angle to the angle you are shooting. So, if you were shooting at, say, 1 o'clock in the afternoon, the filter would show its' deepest effect on your shot when you camera would be pointed almost due North or NNE. Or, put another way, if the Sun was at your back, point the filter/camera in a line running parallel to your shadow. It's useless on a cloudy day apart from removing reflections from glass windows or very calm water. Or, if you just need even more ND than is available in the camera, you can use it for that, too. __________________ EX1, Nikon D750 http://www.morrisonphotographics.com http://www.heritagefilm.com

October 5th, 2008, 05:36 PM	#27
Andy Schocken Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 54	when you're shooting a verite documentary, you don't take filters on and off for individual shots- you either use it for a scene or you don't.

October 5th, 2008, 05:45 PM	#28
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	The only problem with that approach is that a Polarizing filter needs to be reset every time you change your direction relative to the Sun. It's not exactly a "set it and forget it" kind of filter. As soon as you turn away from the direction you started with (and set your filter for maximum effect) the filter would need to be reset. It's really an effect filter and not a dial-able ND filter. __________________ EX1, Nikon D750 http://www.morrisonphotographics.com http://www.heritagefilm.com

October 5th, 2008, 05:52 PM	#29
Andy Schocken Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 54	that's certainly true, and it's therefore not ideal for verite. at the same time, i've successfully used different polarizers on different cameras in many scenes over the years, and i've never noticed this type of uneven color shift. i suppose it's possible that i've just never noticed it, but i doubt it.