SDHC substitute for SxS cards

Joe Busch · March 24th, 2009, 10:30 PM

Newegg.com - FileMate 3FMS4U64M-WR 64GB ExpressCard 34 with Mini USB 2.0 External Solid state disk (SSD) - Solid State Disks

Anyone tried one of these yet? $165... 64GB... 30MB/s read/writes (which should be plenty)

I'm looking to move to the EX3... but paying the ridiculous prices for SxS cards was deterring me (Mainly because I shoot 4-6 hours a day and need to do it all in one shoot)

Another random question, can you record to both slots at the same time? I'm just starting my research on the camera (probably won't buy it for a year or so, and by then something better might come out? heh) but that's a big deal... I don't trust SDHC cards much at all... I'd rather be recording to two at the same time and have a backup if needed... what I shoot can't be re-shot.

Vincent Oliver · March 25th, 2009, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Busch

Newegg.com - FileMate 3FMS4U64M-WR 64GB ExpressCard 34 with Mini USB 2.0 External Solid state disk (SSD) - Solid State Disks

I don't trust SDHC cards much at all... I'd rather be recording to two at the same time and have a backup if needed... what I shoot can't be re-shot.

I have been using Transcend 16gb SDHC cards in a Kensington holder and have never lost anything, - touch wood. But have lost footage on at least four jobs using DV tape

Joe Busch · March 25th, 2009, 01:41 AM

Hehe, well I've never had a tape go bad, I've had dropouts ofcourse...

But It's nice having an instant archivable backup...

I did have about 700GB of raw footage on my server when the RAID array corrupted and I lost all that, but I was able to retrieve all of it with my tapes.

Then again, I could have a real backup solution in-place instead ;)

Either way, it seems like that 64GB SSD is a decent deal... if it works...

Derek Reich · March 25th, 2009, 08:07 AM

I had a minor failure on a SDHC card recently (I posted about this but it was kind of buried in another post) which left me somewhat concerned about using the adpaters, but given the amount I have shot with SDHC cards without failure, it's still an excellent ratio. Certainly better than tape! I'm not certain what caused the problem, or really whether the issue was the SDHC card, Clip Browser, or File Transfer. The clip recorded fine, showed up fine in Clip Browser, (played back just fine) but that one clip would not transfer with File Transfer.... it just wasn't recognized. Everything else on the card was fine. Still can't figure that one out....

But here's my concern about using larger capacity cards. I'd be nervous about putting that much footage in one place. I'd much rather have lots of 16GB cards (the perfect size for me) than fewer 32GB or 64GB cards because if you DO have a failure, you lose so much more material. That's a risk I'm just not comfortable taking yet.

That said, when a Sony rep told me a few months ago that they had developed a 1TB Memory Stick, all I could think of was how great something like that would be to archive with? I would trust solid state memory over a hard drive any day.

Craig Seeman · March 25th, 2009, 08:18 AM

Given the posts I see on all the forums, I think there's a much greater chance of human error transferring a card during a shoot than the card having a technical issue.

Some people may even blame the card when actually the human pulled it out while the light was still red (which may be the case after one stops recording) or copies without using CRC in ClipBrowser.

With two Sandisk 32GB cards, I don't have to touch a thing during most shoots.

Dave Morrison · March 25th, 2009, 08:20 AM

Derek,

Can you give the details (again) about which adapter you were using along with the specific SDHC card you used?

Derek Reich · March 25th, 2009, 08:47 AM

Sure. I was using a MxR adapter, with a Transcend 16GB class 6 card.

Everything seemed to go normally with the shoot, we were doing several on-cameras with talent. Later that evening, I went to download all the cards to two separate LaCie Rugged drives (one for backup) which I then deliver to the client. Everything downloaded perfectly using Clip Browser (version 2, CRC enabled). I then decided to look at some of the takes in File Transfer (because it's a better interface for viewing) and when I tried to bring that particular BPAV folder into File Transfer, it would display a dialog box saying something about that one clip was not recognized. There was no thumbnail image for it in File Transfer either. (I can't remember the exact wording, but I still have that card and can replicate it again). I tried several times to import the files into File Transfer from both drives, and got the same result every time with that one clip. I then tried a third drive, (another LaCie rugged, this time a 7200rpm field edit drive) and tried to import it into FCP, but no go.

The weird thing is the clip played perfectly in Clip Browser. The good thing was that it wasn't a 'good' take, so no big deal.... but it sure could have been a keeper, in which case I would have had some explaining to do.

Anyone have any ideas? I'll try to replicate it today before I erase that card, so I can get the exact wording of the dialog box....

Craig Seeman · March 25th, 2009, 09:37 AM

Please post the error message.
Maybe there's a bug in XDCAM Transfer (what version?).
Current version is 2.9.

Derek Reich · March 25th, 2009, 11:13 AM

Here are the error messages I got when trying to import that one clip. I believe I have the latest version of XDCam File Transfer, but I'll double-check.
I got these errors directly from the card, so that rules out Clip Browser..... the problem must be either something weird happened with that single clip, or with File Transfer.

Craig Seeman · March 25th, 2009, 11:33 AM

I would NOT use XDCAM Transfer directly on the cards. If the file is damaged you've damaged your master. Copy to hard drive FIRST with ClipBrowser.

If you aren't backing up those BPAV you're walking into an accident waiting to happen . . . or maybe it has already for you.

I'm seeing an issue to XDCAM Transfer 2.9 in which it takes a while for the image to appear and be playable. It's as if there's a slow import/thumbnail buffer. If I wait a short bit it'll eventually work.

Patrick Williams · March 25th, 2009, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Reich

Sure. I was using a MxR adapter, with a Transcend 16GB class 6 card.

Everything seemed to go normally with the shoot, we were doing several on-cameras with talent. Later that evening, I went to download all the cards to two separate LaCie Rugged drives (one for backup) which I then deliver to the client. Everything downloaded perfectly using Clip Browser (version 2, CRC enabled). I then decided to look at some of the takes in File Transfer (because it's a better interface for viewing) and when I tried to bring that particular BPAV folder into File Transfer, it would display a dialog box saying something about that one clip was not recognized. There was no thumbnail image for it in File Transfer either. (I can't remember the exact wording, but I still have that card and can replicate it again). I tried several times to import the files into File Transfer from both drives, and got the same result every time with that one clip. I then tried a third drive, (another LaCie rugged, this time a 7200rpm field edit drive) and tried to import it into FCP, but no go.

The weird thing is the clip played perfectly in Clip Browser. The good thing was that it wasn't a 'good' take, so no big deal.... but it sure could have been a keeper, in which case I would have had some explaining to do.

Anyone have any ideas? I'll try to replicate it today before I erase that card, so I can get the exact wording of the dialog box....

Derek,
Did you ever try to copy the bad clip to another card in the other slot? Perhaps that would make it a new clip with it's own BPAV folder.

Ed Kukla · March 25th, 2009, 05:31 PM

the prices on amazon are quite wide ranging for the Sandisk Ultra II SDHC.

I've heard of counterfit SDHC cards. How reliable is an Amazon SDHC card vendor at bargain prices? Aren't they screened pretty well by Amazon?

Also, what is the practical difference between the Ultra II and Extreme III for use in my EX-3? The III is a lot more expensive.

Thanks

Derek Reich · March 25th, 2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Williams

Derek,
Did you ever try to copy the bad clip to another card in the other slot? Perhaps that would make it a new clip with it's own BPAV folder.

I did not try that..... good idea. I'll give that a try and see what happens. How exactly do I do that?

Patrick Williams · March 25th, 2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Reich

I did not try that..... good idea. I'll give that a try and see what happens. How exactly do I do that?

Derek,
Turn the camera on in Media mode(not camera). Look to see if you see all of the thumbnails displayed on the lcd screen. Select the "bad" clip and click on it using the joystick or the thumbwheel. One of the menu options that will pop up will be "copy clip."
Select that option and then it will give you a larger window that says "copy clip A>B" (actually it says A arrow B, but I don't have an arrow on my keyboard). Push execute and you're done. Of course you need to have a card in the B slot before you do this. Then try clip browser with the new clip.

Andrew Stone · March 26th, 2009, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Kukla

I've heard of counterfit SDHC cards. How reliable is an Amazon SDHC card vendor at bargain prices?

I have bought these cards at cheap prices from Amazon Marketplace and eBay. They have all worked fine.

I look carefully at the customer approval ratings and comments and buy accordingly.

March 25th, 2009, 08:07 AM	#1414
Derek Reich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Washoe Valley, NV Posts: 304	I had a minor failure on a SDHC card recently (I posted about this but it was kind of buried in another post) which left me somewhat concerned about using the adpaters, but given the amount I have shot with SDHC cards without failure, it's still an excellent ratio. Certainly better than tape! I'm not certain what caused the problem, or really whether the issue was the SDHC card, Clip Browser, or File Transfer. The clip recorded fine, showed up fine in Clip Browser, (played back just fine) but that one clip would not transfer with File Transfer.... it just wasn't recognized. Everything else on the card was fine. Still can't figure that one out.... But here's my concern about using larger capacity cards. I'd be nervous about putting that much footage in one place. I'd much rather have lots of 16GB cards (the perfect size for me) than fewer 32GB or 64GB cards because if you DO have a failure, you lose so much more material. That's a risk I'm just not comfortable taking yet. That said, when a Sony rep told me a few months ago that they had developed a 1TB Memory Stick, all I could think of was how great something like that would be to archive with? I would trust solid state memory over a hard drive any day. __________________ www.zooprax.com

March 25th, 2009, 08:20 AM	#1416
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	Derek, Can you give the details (again) about which adapter you were using along with the specific SDHC card you used? __________________ EX1, Nikon D750 http://www.morrisonphotographics.com http://www.heritagefilm.com

March 25th, 2009, 08:47 AM	#1417
Derek Reich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Washoe Valley, NV Posts: 304	Sure. I was using a MxR adapter, with a Transcend 16GB class 6 card. Everything seemed to go normally with the shoot, we were doing several on-cameras with talent. Later that evening, I went to download all the cards to two separate LaCie Rugged drives (one for backup) which I then deliver to the client. Everything downloaded perfectly using Clip Browser (version 2, CRC enabled). I then decided to look at some of the takes in File Transfer (because it's a better interface for viewing) and when I tried to bring that particular BPAV folder into File Transfer, it would display a dialog box saying something about that one clip was not recognized. There was no thumbnail image for it in File Transfer either. (I can't remember the exact wording, but I still have that card and can replicate it again). I tried several times to import the files into File Transfer from both drives, and got the same result every time with that one clip. I then tried a third drive, (another LaCie rugged, this time a 7200rpm field edit drive) and tried to import it into FCP, but no go. The weird thing is the clip played perfectly in Clip Browser. The good thing was that it wasn't a 'good' take, so no big deal.... but it sure could have been a keeper, in which case I would have had some explaining to do. Anyone have any ideas? I'll try to replicate it today before I erase that card, so I can get the exact wording of the dialog box.... __________________ www.zooprax.com

March 25th, 2009, 11:13 AM	#1419
Derek Reich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Washoe Valley, NV Posts: 304	Here are the error messages I got when trying to import that one clip. I believe I have the latest version of XDCam File Transfer, but I'll double-check. I got these errors directly from the card, so that rules out Clip Browser..... the problem must be either something weird happened with that single clip, or with File Transfer. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images __________________ www.zooprax.com

March 25th, 2009, 05:31 PM	#1422
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	sandisk ultra from amazon the prices on amazon are quite wide ranging for the Sandisk Ultra II SDHC. I've heard of counterfit SDHC cards. How reliable is an Amazon SDHC card vendor at bargain prices? Aren't they screened pretty well by Amazon? Also, what is the practical difference between the Ultra II and Extreme III for use in my EX-3? The III is a lot more expensive. Thanks

March 24th, 2009, 10:30 PM	#1411
Joe Busch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sammamish, WA Posts: 398	Newegg.com - FileMate 3FMS4U64M-WR 64GB ExpressCard 34 with Mini USB 2.0 External Solid state disk (SSD) - Solid State Disks Anyone tried one of these yet? $165... 64GB... 30MB/s read/writes (which should be plenty) I'm looking to move to the EX3... but paying the ridiculous prices for SxS cards was deterring me (Mainly because I shoot 4-6 hours a day and need to do it all in one shoot) Another random question, can you record to both slots at the same time? I'm just starting my research on the camera (probably won't buy it for a year or so, and by then something better might come out? heh) but that's a big deal... I don't trust SDHC cards much at all... I'd rather be recording to two at the same time and have a backup if needed... what I shoot can't be re-shot.

March 25th, 2009, 01:41 AM	#1413
Joe Busch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sammamish, WA Posts: 398	Hehe, well I've never had a tape go bad, I've had dropouts ofcourse... But It's nice having an instant archivable backup... I did have about 700GB of raw footage on my server when the RAID array corrupted and I lost all that, but I was able to retrieve all of it with my tapes. Then again, I could have a real backup solution in-place instead ;) Either way, it seems like that 64GB SSD is a decent deal... if it works...

March 25th, 2009, 08:18 AM	#1415
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Given the posts I see on all the forums, I think there's a much greater chance of human error transferring a card during a shoot than the card having a technical issue. Some people may even blame the card when actually the human pulled it out while the light was still red (which may be the case after one stops recording) or copies without using CRC in ClipBrowser. With two Sandisk 32GB cards, I don't have to touch a thing during most shoots.

March 25th, 2009, 09:37 AM	#1418
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Please post the error message. Maybe there's a bug in XDCAM Transfer (what version?). Current version is 2.9.

March 25th, 2009, 11:33 AM	#1420
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	I would NOT use XDCAM Transfer directly on the cards. If the file is damaged you've damaged your master. Copy to hard drive FIRST with ClipBrowser. If you aren't backing up those BPAV you're walking into an accident waiting to happen . . . or maybe it has already for you. I'm seeing an issue to XDCAM Transfer 2.9 in which it takes a while for the image to appear and be playable. It's as if there's a slow import/thumbnail buffer. If I wait a short bit it'll eventually work.