SDHC substitute for SxS cards

Keith Anderson · January 8th, 2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Krichever

Was it in HQ 1920 x 1080 60p fps too?

I ran 1080 30p for the full 118 minute singlr clip test. Flawless!

Keith

Craig Seeman · January 8th, 2009, 03:49 PM

and all HQ frame sizes and frame rates are 35mbps. Overcrank is the exception. It can be much higher and that's when the cards will give you Media Error at some point.

My Overcrank tests.

720p24/60 error at 15 seconds
720p24/48 error at 26 seconds
720p24/45 error at 29 seconds
720p24/44 recorded for 2 minutes and did not get an error. This seems to be the threshold for this card.

Note the times are "camera" time, not stopwatch time. Given that 720p24/60 is 2.5x real time it took 6 seconds for the camera to record 15 seconds. Given that 24/48 is 2x it took 13 seconds to record those 26 seconds. If you watch the duration counter you'll notice it's moving faster than real time when you overcrank.

Since 24/44 is 1.833x real time and the resultant video would play back at 35mbps one might guess the record data rate is 64.167mbps sustained. It's actually VBR so maybe there's a little headroom (or would fast motion force an error?).

Note at NO TIME did Media Error corrupt the clip. It reported the error while the buffer dumped the clip to the card (watch how long the red light over the card takes to go green/ready again) and I was then able to record again.

Basically when we examine write speeds it seems to be coupled to the buffer in that when, over time, the buffer fills to its max before the writing is done it results in Media Error. So it's really sort of write speed vs buffer filling to capacity. That's why you don't get an immediate Media Error.

Mark Krichever · January 9th, 2009, 11:23 AM

Sorry, I meant HQ 1080 60i

Ned Soltz · January 9th, 2009, 03:50 PM

I'll hopefully be in NY Sun-Tues and will pick up a 32gb card or two at J&R. That is... if there isn't too much snow. At any rate, Sunday is my play day before I shoot Mon-Tues so hopefully can get some good snow shots of the city.

Craig Seeman · January 9th, 2009, 04:24 PM

If you haven't been there lately, you'd have to go to the photography department which is a different building than the computer store. While they have Sandisk SDHC cards in other parts of the store, apparently the photog dept. is the only part that has the 32GB cards.

If you can brave the cold you can walk on the Brooklyn Bridge which is only a couple of blocks from J&R and get some great shots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned Soltz

I'll hopefully be in NY Sun-Tues and will pick up a 32gb card or two at J&R. That is... if there isn't too much snow. At any rate, Sunday is my play day before I shoot Mon-Tues so hopefully can get some good snow shots of the city.

Ned Soltz · January 9th, 2009, 06:45 PM

We always try to walk across the Brooklyn bridge every NY trip. I have the feeling it is going to be a bit cold and snowy this weekend, unfortunately.

Mark Krichever · January 10th, 2009, 10:12 AM

Latest news:

http://podcast.televisionbroadcast.c...inutedrill.mp3

I think it is very good development for all of us owners of XDCAMs

Michael Palmer · January 10th, 2009, 04:01 PM

I have now tried 3 different SDHC (Class 6) 16 gig brands and I only feel comfortable with one brand so far, Transcend. I first purchased 2 Transcend cards while waiting for the MxR adapters and I had immediate success when formatting the cards for the first time. Over the holidays I recorded family home movies using these Transcend cards and they worked so well I started thinking that the Class 6 was the key to purchasing more cards, no so.

I was recently in Fry's Electronics and found 16 gig Patriot SDHC class 6 cards for under $30 and I purchased 6 thinking they should work. I had found that they would NOT format on the first attempt but they would on the second attempt. I tried both A & B slots in both EX1 and EX3 cameras and found they would only format on the second attempt. I also found that after recording for more than about 30 seconds you will need to wait until the red record light stops before you can continue to record the next clip. If you don't wait for the green light then you will get an error that the media needs to restore and you must remove the card and reinsert then restore the card before you can continue. I was successful recording long clips using 1080 24p record modes. I still haven't tested with 30p or any 720 formats. I think I'm going to return these cards. Oh the Transcend cards only have about a 4 second delay for the red record light to turn green. I think this is how we can determine the card record speeds.

I had ordered 4 more PQI 16 gig (Class 6) SDHC cards online thinking it must not matter what brand but as long as it was the fastest Class rating it should work. These PQI cards would NOT format in the camera at all. I even tried formatting in Disk Utility as FAT-32 and nothing seemed to work in the camera. I will be sending them back.

I haven't need to use any of these SDHC cards for hire yet and I'm going to test more with the Transcend cards before I take that risk. I know the 32 gig Transcend Compact Flash cards work properly with the Convergent Design Flash XDR at 100 Mbps and I'm feeling like this brand is among the better brands on the market. I also found the Transcend fits into the MxR better, without such a tight fit as the Patriot and PQI brands.

C.S. Michael · January 10th, 2009, 04:10 PM

Since the MxR reader was specifically designed for use with Sandisk Ultra II SDHC cards, that's the brand I'm buying. Minor price differences aside, I don't see any advantage to using a different brand. What deviate from what's proven to work?

Craig Seeman · January 10th, 2009, 05:34 PM

Sandisk Ultra II certainly does work but I also tested with Transcend Class 6 16GB and, like Michael, I found that it worked too. Ross states both Sandisk and Transcend work. Apparently it works with Kingston as well.

From the front of his web page

E-Films
It has been tested to work with the 16GB Ultra II Sandisk, 8GB and 16GB Class 6 Transcend card, as well as Kingston 16GB.

C.S. Michael · January 10th, 2009, 06:07 PM

It's certainly helpful to know which cards work and which do not, so I really appreciate the ongoing testing. It's not hard to imagine a situation (say, traveling overseas) when one might have to make an on-the-spot buying decision to get an extra card. It will be useful to have a list of the cards that work.

With that said, the MxR FAQ states "we highly recommend Sandisk cards with our adapter. We designed the adapter to work with this card, however it also works with Transcend, (the Transcend being a little bigger than the Sandisk), and with SOME Kingston."

Since they designed the adapter with the Sandisk in mind, that brand seems like the safest bet. I figure I'm already saving $$$ by going this route, so might as well get the most reliable card (although admittedly they do cost a few bucks more). Especially when you consider the possibility of knockoff SDHC cards, the best option seems to be Sandisk Ultra II from a reputable dealer, with the Transcend being runner up.

Ned Soltz · January 10th, 2009, 07:43 PM

Managed to snag 2 32gb cards at J&R today. They are labeled Class 2, by the way.

Craig Seeman · January 11th, 2009, 12:27 AM

So are mine. I've heard that was a recent change from class 4.

I can record 720p24/44 without media error. I estimate that to be about 64mbps. At 720p24/45 I get media error after 29 seconds duration on the counter which is just over 15 seconds of recording. So it seems somewhere just over 8MB/s the care will error.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned Soltz

Managed to snag 2 32gb cards at J&R today. They are labeled Class 2, by the way.

Piotr Wozniacki · January 11th, 2009, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned Soltz

Managed to snag 2 32gb cards at J&R today. They are labeled Class 2, by the way.

Is the Manufacturer code of this Sandisk card SDSDH-032G-E11?

My MxR adapters arrived some time ago (thanks Ross), but I've been waiting for the 32GB cards to become available. Now the cards coded as above are available where I leave; are they safe to go with MxR?

Craig Seeman · January 11th, 2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Is the Manufacturer code of this Sandisk card SDSDH-032G-E11?

Mine are
SDSDRH-032G-A11

January 10th, 2009, 04:01 PM	#1373
Michael Palmer Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Lakewood, Ca Posts: 65	SDHC Brands that work with the MxR I have now tried 3 different SDHC (Class 6) 16 gig brands and I only feel comfortable with one brand so far, Transcend. I first purchased 2 Transcend cards while waiting for the MxR adapters and I had immediate success when formatting the cards for the first time. Over the holidays I recorded family home movies using these Transcend cards and they worked so well I started thinking that the Class 6 was the key to purchasing more cards, no so. I was recently in Fry's Electronics and found 16 gig Patriot SDHC class 6 cards for under $30 and I purchased 6 thinking they should work. I had found that they would NOT format on the first attempt but they would on the second attempt. I tried both A & B slots in both EX1 and EX3 cameras and found they would only format on the second attempt. I also found that after recording for more than about 30 seconds you will need to wait until the red record light stops before you can continue to record the next clip. If you don't wait for the green light then you will get an error that the media needs to restore and you must remove the card and reinsert then restore the card before you can continue. I was successful recording long clips using 1080 24p record modes. I still haven't tested with 30p or any 720 formats. I think I'm going to return these cards. Oh the Transcend cards only have about a 4 second delay for the red record light to turn green. I think this is how we can determine the card record speeds. I had ordered 4 more PQI 16 gig (Class 6) SDHC cards online thinking it must not matter what brand but as long as it was the fastest Class rating it should work. These PQI cards would NOT format in the camera at all. I even tried formatting in Disk Utility as FAT-32 and nothing seemed to work in the camera. I will be sending them back. I haven't need to use any of these SDHC cards for hire yet and I'm going to test more with the Transcend cards before I take that risk. I know the 32 gig Transcend Compact Flash cards work properly with the Convergent Design Flash XDR at 100 Mbps and I'm feeling like this brand is among the better brands on the market. I also found the Transcend fits into the MxR better, without such a tight fit as the Patriot and PQI brands.

January 10th, 2009, 04:10 PM	#1374
C.S. Michael Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 197	Since the MxR reader was specifically designed for use with Sandisk Ultra II SDHC cards, that's the brand I'm buying. Minor price differences aside, I don't see any advantage to using a different brand. What deviate from what's proven to work? __________________ Bored? Check out my blog (shot with Sony EX1, Panasonic TM700, Nikon D7100, Sony NEX-5N, GoPro2): LongLongHoneymoon.com

January 10th, 2009, 06:07 PM	#1376
C.S. Michael Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 197	It's certainly helpful to know which cards work and which do not, so I really appreciate the ongoing testing. It's not hard to imagine a situation (say, traveling overseas) when one might have to make an on-the-spot buying decision to get an extra card. It will be useful to have a list of the cards that work. With that said, the MxR FAQ states "we highly recommend Sandisk cards with our adapter. We designed the adapter to work with this card, however it also works with Transcend, (the Transcend being a little bigger than the Sandisk), and with SOME Kingston." Since they designed the adapter with the Sandisk in mind, that brand seems like the safest bet. I figure I'm already saving $$$ by going this route, so might as well get the most reliable card (although admittedly they do cost a few bucks more). Especially when you consider the possibility of knockoff SDHC cards, the best option seems to be Sandisk Ultra II from a reputable dealer, with the Transcend being runner up. __________________ Bored? Check out my blog (shot with Sony EX1, Panasonic TM700, Nikon D7100, Sony NEX-5N, GoPro2): LongLongHoneymoon.com

January 8th, 2009, 03:49 PM	#1367
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	and all HQ frame sizes and frame rates are 35mbps. Overcrank is the exception. It can be much higher and that's when the cards will give you Media Error at some point. My Overcrank tests. 720p24/60 error at 15 seconds 720p24/48 error at 26 seconds 720p24/45 error at 29 seconds 720p24/44 recorded for 2 minutes and did not get an error. This seems to be the threshold for this card. Note the times are "camera" time, not stopwatch time. Given that 720p24/60 is 2.5x real time it took 6 seconds for the camera to record 15 seconds. Given that 24/48 is 2x it took 13 seconds to record those 26 seconds. If you watch the duration counter you'll notice it's moving faster than real time when you overcrank. Since 24/44 is 1.833x real time and the resultant video would play back at 35mbps one might guess the record data rate is 64.167mbps sustained. It's actually VBR so maybe there's a little headroom (or would fast motion force an error?). Note at NO TIME did Media Error corrupt the clip. It reported the error while the buffer dumped the clip to the card (watch how long the red light over the card takes to go green/ready again) and I was then able to record again. Basically when we examine write speeds it seems to be coupled to the buffer in that when, over time, the buffer fills to its max before the writing is done it results in Media Error. So it's really sort of write speed vs buffer filling to capacity. That's why you don't get an immediate Media Error.

January 9th, 2009, 11:23 AM	#1368
Mark Krichever Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New York, NY Posts: 47	Sorry, I meant HQ 1080 60i

January 9th, 2009, 03:50 PM	#1369
Ned Soltz Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Teaneck, NJ Posts: 659	I'll hopefully be in NY Sun-Tues and will pick up a 32gb card or two at J&R. That is... if there isn't too much snow. At any rate, Sunday is my play day before I shoot Mon-Tues so hopefully can get some good snow shots of the city.

January 9th, 2009, 06:45 PM	#1371
Ned Soltz Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Teaneck, NJ Posts: 659	We always try to walk across the Brooklyn bridge every NY trip. I have the feeling it is going to be a bit cold and snowy this weekend, unfortunately.

January 10th, 2009, 10:12 AM	#1372
Mark Krichever Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New York, NY Posts: 47	Latest news: http://podcast.televisionbroadcast.c...inutedrill.mp3 I think it is very good development for all of us owners of XDCAMs

January 10th, 2009, 05:34 PM	#1375
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Sandisk Ultra II certainly does work but I also tested with Transcend Class 6 16GB and, like Michael, I found that it worked too. Ross states both Sandisk and Transcend work. Apparently it works with Kingston as well. From the front of his web page E-Films It has been tested to work with the 16GB Ultra II Sandisk, 8GB and 16GB Class 6 Transcend card, as well as Kingston 16GB.

January 10th, 2009, 07:43 PM	#1377
Ned Soltz Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Teaneck, NJ Posts: 659	Managed to snag 2 32gb cards at J&R today. They are labeled Class 2, by the way.