SDHC substitute for SxS cards

Alex Raskin · November 7th, 2008, 07:02 PM

Ethan, it'll look great if these flash drives

- have high enough bandwidth
- are reliable
- and hopefully, fit in so EX1 door would close

Anyone knows the specs? Geeks web page does not seem to say much.

Steven Thomas · November 7th, 2008, 07:20 PM

Frys has those Adata SSD cards (w/ USB port) all the way up to 32GB.

A month ago I tried the 16GB version. The EX1 gave an incompatible media error.

Andy Wilkinson · November 9th, 2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson

My Kensington 7-in-1 Expresscard 34 arrived today (my Sandisk 16GB Ultra II SDHC card arrived at the weekend).

Put it all in slot 1 of my EX3, closed the door .... :-) and then turned the EX3 on. So far so good.

Then I got a message asking me to format the card so I did. Then I got a "media error, cannot format" type error.... :-(

Turned it off, unplugged everything, re-mounted everything and after 3 unsuccessful goes at this it finally formatted successfully. EX3 now shows 58mins available in slot 1 ...back to :-) !!!!

Recorded a few quick clips and everything now seems to be OK. I'll certainly put it through it's paces before I'll trust it with an hours worth of important clips though.

Did anyone else get a worrying introduction to using SDHC like this?

Well I promised to report back on this. It's still early days but everything is working fine. Did a lot of 1920x1080 (25p) filming today with SDHC and just used a SxS for some 60fps slow motion (1280x720) stuff. I did not try and push over-cranked clips onto SDHC as this will surely risk a data error if I went close to an approx 50fps limit or above as well reported by others. Just reviewed all clips on MBP etc. etc., everything working exactly as expected. So far, so good! Very happy!!!! I will test the over-cranking limit on SDHC when I get time (on non-critical stuff) and report that soon.

Anthony McErlean · November 9th, 2008, 12:24 PM

Glad to hear its working for you Andy.

Paul Newman · November 9th, 2008, 12:42 PM

I've opened up an AFT Express adapter, in which the SDHC fits snuggly and the door of the EX1 closes - next I'm gonna trash a Kensington and see if I can marry them - not sure I have the tiny soldering gear needed!!

Still using 8 SDHC combo's daily, no errors and I'm getting close to pulling the silly door right off.

Paul

Steven Thomas · November 9th, 2008, 01:06 PM

Paul, let us know how that project pans out.
I located this resource for the push/push media a while back. Maybe you can make use of it.

How hard was it to open the AFT up?

I have not tried. Gives us an idea how.

Jon Sands · November 9th, 2008, 01:09 PM

Finally got around to ordering the kensington/sandisk, should be here in a week.

me so excited

Paul Newman · November 9th, 2008, 01:27 PM

This is an image of the two cards private parts! The Kensington is above and the AFT below. It is simple to see why the Kensington cannot accept the SDHC fully in, it has more sophisticated electronics than the AFT.

Whilst the AFT accepts the card, it doesn't work - even giving errors when copying files from a card to my laptop through the express card slot.

For those who are concerned: No cards where subject to cruelty during these tests and both cards still function as normal.

Paul

Steven Thomas · November 9th, 2008, 05:23 PM

So based on your internal image of the Kensington, it uses a Genesys Logic USB 2.0 Flash Card Reader Controller GL827

Genesys Logic

So if we can find an expresscard card that offers this controller and has a push/push media connector, this may be the "magic" combo.

Erik Phairas · November 9th, 2008, 06:46 PM

This weekend I was shooting a drag race out at the sand dunes. In a rush I forgot to switch to my SXS card and I was shooting 720 30P in 60p slow motion mode. That is the highest bitrate setting isn't it?

Anyway, I shot a few races before I realized I was using the SDHC combo... worked fine for the short races.. 600ft with a top speed of about 70mph. (uphill in the sand)

Andy Wilkinson · November 10th, 2008, 04:23 AM

Tested my EX3 with Kensington 7-in-1 and Sandisk 16GB Ultra out this morning at different frame rates in 720p. Waved the camera around for 5 minutes in a "busy" room so lots of fast motion of complex detail

45 fps - fine
48 fps - fine
50 fps - media error after about 3 minutes on one occassion, fine for 5 minutes second time.
52 fps - media error after about 20 seconds on both occassions
55 fps - media error after about 5 seconds
60 fps - media error almost instantly.

This seems to confirm MOST of the experiences of others except my SDHC is maybe slightly on the lower end of performance. Want to swap cards with me Erik!!!! :-)

(EDIT: To clarify regarding Ted's comment below I'm in PAL land and the camera was set at 720 25p video format and then overcranked as described)

Steven Thomas · November 10th, 2008, 06:12 AM

You must of been lucky.. lol

Ted OMalley · November 10th, 2008, 08:20 AM

You were shooting 30P, right?

I've discovered different (lesser) results shooting 24P.

In 30P, I can shoot reliably at 52 - a full hour or starts and stops with no errors. In 24P, I can shoot at 41, but at 42 I get errors after about 25 minutes or so.

This makes sense, as the frames are "smaller" in 30P since 30 of them must fit into the same 35 Mbps stream as 24 frames do in 24P.

30P OC'd to 52 is recording at about 1.74x
41 OC'd frames at 24P is recording at about 1.74x

35 Mbps content overcranked 1.74x is about 60Mbps

The EX3 (and presumably EX1) hits a wall after this. You might say overcranking is "Gone in 60 Mbps" if you were into obscure movie reference puns.

Erik Phairas · November 10th, 2008, 08:40 PM

ummm something must be going on then.. I just recorded about 30 seconds in 720X30p at 60fps overcranking using the kensington and 16gb Ultra II and it worked fine... shaking the camera like crazy too.

I am uploading some video right not for a project... but later this week I will make a video of my EX3 with only the kensington combo doing some overcranking for you guys.

EDIT: just filmed the TV (so there would be movement) for 3 minutes straight.. no errors. 60fps slow motion.

Michael Maier · November 11th, 2008, 06:26 AM

Mine arrived. It works great. I recorded some HQ 1080 24p and played it back in the camera with no problems. But for some reason, when I took the SD card out of the adapter and put it in my laptop nothing happened. My laptop can't see it. But it can see all my other scan disk SD cards. Any ideas why? Is it because it is formatted for the SxS system (the camera asked me to format it before I could use it)? I was hoping I would be able to off load my footage by inserting the SD card into my laptop as I don't have an express 34 slot, just 54. Although I heard you can also buy an adapter to read 34 cards in a 54 slot. Has anybody tried that, especially with the SDHC combo? Thanks.

November 9th, 2008, 12:42 PM	#860
Paul Newman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Agua Blanca Ibiza Posts: 305	I've opened up an AFT Express adapter, in which the SDHC fits snuggly and the door of the EX1 closes - next I'm gonna trash a Kensington and see if I can marry them - not sure I have the tiny soldering gear needed!! Still using 8 SDHC combo's daily, no errors and I'm getting close to pulling the silly door right off. Paul __________________ Another Sunny Day in Ibiza

November 9th, 2008, 01:27 PM	#863
Paul Newman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Agua Blanca Ibiza Posts: 305	This is an image of the two cards private parts! The Kensington is above and the AFT below. It is simple to see why the Kensington cannot accept the SDHC fully in, it has more sophisticated electronics than the AFT. Whilst the AFT accepts the card, it doesn't work - even giving errors when copying files from a card to my laptop through the express card slot. For those who are concerned: No cards where subject to cruelty during these tests and both cards still function as normal. Paul Attached Thumbnails __________________ Another Sunny Day in Ibiza

November 9th, 2008, 05:23 PM	#864
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	So based on your internal image of the Kensington, it uses a Genesys Logic USB 2.0 Flash Card Reader Controller GL827 Genesys Logic So if we can find an expresscard card that offers this controller and has a push/push media connector, this may be the "magic" combo. Last edited by Steven Thomas; November 9th, 2008 at 06:18 PM. Reason: Can't spell... lol

November 10th, 2008, 04:23 AM	#866
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Tested my EX3 with Kensington 7-in-1 and Sandisk 16GB Ultra out this morning at different frame rates in 720p. Waved the camera around for 5 minutes in a "busy" room so lots of fast motion of complex detail 45 fps - fine 48 fps - fine 50 fps - media error after about 3 minutes on one occassion, fine for 5 minutes second time. 52 fps - media error after about 20 seconds on both occassions 55 fps - media error after about 5 seconds 60 fps - media error almost instantly. This seems to confirm MOST of the experiences of others except my SDHC is maybe slightly on the lower end of performance. Want to swap cards with me Erik!!!! :-) (EDIT: To clarify regarding Ted's comment below I'm in PAL land and the camera was set at 720 25p video format and then overcranked as described) __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production Last edited by Andy Wilkinson; November 10th, 2008 at 09:57 AM. Reason: Clarify setting

November 10th, 2008, 08:20 AM	#868
Ted OMalley Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 596	You were shooting 30P, right? I've discovered different (lesser) results shooting 24P. In 30P, I can shoot reliably at 52 - a full hour or starts and stops with no errors. In 24P, I can shoot at 41, but at 42 I get errors after about 25 minutes or so. This makes sense, as the frames are "smaller" in 30P since 30 of them must fit into the same 35 Mbps stream as 24 frames do in 24P. 30P OC'd to 52 is recording at about 1.74x 41 OC'd frames at 24P is recording at about 1.74x 35 Mbps content overcranked 1.74x is about 60Mbps The EX3 (and presumably EX1) hits a wall after this. You might say overcranking is "Gone in 60 Mbps" if you were into obscure movie reference puns. __________________ Sony EX3, Vegas 9.0 64bit, Windows 7(64), Core i7, 12GB, RAID1 & 0, HotSwap SATA, 30" LCD(2560x1600)-GTX285 & 24" LCD(1360x768)-7800GT

November 7th, 2008, 07:02 PM	#856
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Ethan, it'll look great if these flash drives - have high enough bandwidth - are reliable - and hopefully, fit in so EX1 door would close Anyone knows the specs? Geeks web page does not seem to say much.

November 7th, 2008, 07:20 PM	#857
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Frys has those Adata SSD cards (w/ USB port) all the way up to 32GB. A month ago I tried the 16GB version. The EX1 gave an incompatible media error.

November 9th, 2008, 12:24 PM	#859
Anthony McErlean Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,082	Glad to hear its working for you Andy.

November 9th, 2008, 01:06 PM	#861
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Paul, let us know how that project pans out. I located this resource for the push/push media a while back. Maybe you can make use of it. How hard was it to open the AFT up? I have not tried. Gives us an idea how.

November 9th, 2008, 01:09 PM	#862
Jon Sands Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 107	Finally got around to ordering the kensington/sandisk, should be here in a week. me so excited

November 9th, 2008, 06:46 PM	#865
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	This weekend I was shooting a drag race out at the sand dunes. In a rush I forgot to switch to my SXS card and I was shooting 720 30P in 60p slow motion mode. That is the highest bitrate setting isn't it? Anyway, I shot a few races before I realized I was using the SDHC combo... worked fine for the short races.. 600ft with a top speed of about 70mph. (uphill in the sand)

November 10th, 2008, 06:12 AM	#867
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	You must of been lucky.. lol

November 10th, 2008, 08:40 PM	#869
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	ummm something must be going on then.. I just recorded about 30 seconds in 720X30p at 60fps overcranking using the kensington and 16gb Ultra II and it worked fine... shaking the camera like crazy too. I am uploading some video right not for a project... but later this week I will make a video of my EX3 with only the kensington combo doing some overcranking for you guys. EDIT: just filmed the TV (so there would be movement) for 3 minutes straight.. no errors. 60fps slow motion.

November 11th, 2008, 06:26 AM	#870
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Mine arrived. It works great. I recorded some HQ 1080 24p and played it back in the camera with no problems. But for some reason, when I took the SD card out of the adapter and put it in my laptop nothing happened. My laptop can't see it. But it can see all my other scan disk SD cards. Any ideas why? Is it because it is formatted for the SxS system (the camera asked me to format it before I could use it)? I was hoping I would be able to off load my footage by inserting the SD card into my laptop as I don't have an express 34 slot, just 54. Although I heard you can also buy an adapter to read 34 cards in a 54 slot. Has anybody tried that, especially with the SDHC combo? Thanks.