SDHC substitute for SxS cards

Bruce Rawlings · October 2nd, 2008, 11:28 AM

What a great day today has been. EX1 returned from Sony Pencoed in just 2 days fully sorted out and firmware upgraded at 10-30 this morning. Kensington Express reader arrives at 11am with Sandisk 8gb cards. 11-05 all working well in EX1. Thank you all for your investigative work it is very much appreciated. Who is going to design a small plastic cover to fit in the card opening?

Steven Thomas · October 2nd, 2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Rawlings

Who is going to design a small plastic cover to fit in the card opening?

That's a good idea.

The great thing is the Kensington is so inexpensive. We can toss it aside when something else happens by that allows the door to close.

Bruce Rawlings · October 2nd, 2008, 12:47 PM

Exactly Steve. I ordered 4 kensingtons for now as I think the SD cards could easily be lost. It is a feeling of liberation now that cards are cheap. Will still use SxS for really important shoots but can now shoot with Sandisk Extreme II/III and not bother to download during a normal days shooting. I am sure that when the news gets out it will mean bucket loads of EX1/3 being sold.

Mike Chandler · October 2nd, 2008, 04:47 PM

Steve--which sxs Sony reader are you saying is PCIe based? Will the Kensington work with the SBAC-10 USB Sony sxs reader, as it's a usb interface? Anyone compared downloads with the SD cards in the usb reader vs Sxs in the same reader?

Ted OMalley · October 2nd, 2008, 05:05 PM

Previously, I'd been shopping for an Expresscard reader that wasn't USB. How would the speed of a PCIe based SxS reader accessing the Kensington/SanDisk solution compare to the speed of a USB based SD card reader? Is it worth the effort?

Steven Thomas · October 2nd, 2008, 05:15 PM

My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong), the expresscard bus is capable of using one or both of the following data buses: USB and/or PCIe.

The Kensington expresscard is USB based only and will not work with the Sony SBAC-10 which is PCIe based ONLY.

My understanding is the original EX1 software (prior to current 1.1), only allows PCIe communication. This is the high speed comm used with the SxS cards.

My guess is Sony enabled USB to allow their new PHU-60K viso capture drive to work with the EX series. This drive is obviously USB based.

Mike Chandler · October 2nd, 2008, 05:38 PM

Sorry to be so thick, Steve, but I'm still confused. The PHU-60 connects ONLY with a USB cable to the Mac. It won't work with the Kensington ?

Steven Thomas · October 2nd, 2008, 05:40 PM

No, the kensington is an expresscard to SDHC media adapter.

Mike Chandler · October 2nd, 2008, 05:41 PM

I meant the SBAC-10 USB reader.

Steven Thomas · October 2nd, 2008, 05:57 PM

I have not tried, but I'm "almost" 100% sure the Kensington (USB based) will not work with the SBAC-10 PCIe based only (I believe).

Erik Phairas · October 2nd, 2008, 07:38 PM

I must be a big nerd because I find this whole thread quite exciting. :) I look forward to reading it when I get home... LOL As soon as I get the camera I will test out some Optima PNY 4gb class-4 SDHC I have laying around.

Steven Thomas · October 2nd, 2008, 08:28 PM

Great Erik.
Report back. Also run the Crystal Disk Mark utility.
Watch it run though. Don't just wait for the results.
Because it runs each test five times, it only takes one write or read to drop below the required data rate and the EX will fail.

The SanDisk devices have a sustained data write and read above 15MB/s, this is what makes these SDHC a stable choice.

Erik Phairas · October 2nd, 2008, 09:30 PM

tested it.. the numbers only went up and down by a few tenths during the test. Are these good? I gotta go back at look at the other results.

Seq= R 19.37 - W 7.561
512k= R 19.15 - W 2.234
4k= R 4.142 - W 0.024

Alex Raskin · October 2nd, 2008, 09:35 PM

Erik

Here's a re-post of my results for the comparison.

Mine is actually Cables Unlimited Card Reader IOC-9750 adapter + Sandisk Extreme III 30MB/s card combo.

Crystal Mark readings of my adapter/card combo (5 tests):
Read Seq: 19.38; 512K: 19.17; 4K: 3.706 MB/s
Write: Seq: 15.80; 512K: 3.344; 4K: 0.033 MB/s

On comparison, SxS Sandisk card, 16Gb, rendered:
Read Seq: 99.53; 512K: 96.14; 4K: 9.84 MB/s
Write: Seq: 79.19; 512K: 7.297; 4K: 0.057 MB/s

It would appear that *your* card's read speed is good, but write speed is not enough? I'm sure Steven knows better though.

Steven Thomas · October 2nd, 2008, 09:52 PM

Erik,
Thanks for the quick turn around on your tests.

I agree with Alex, you may be a bit on the slow side for write speed.

The 16GB Ultra II 15MB/s SDHC sustained write speed is over 15MB/s and only sells for less than $70 USD.

Having said that, your PNY may work in HQ modes.
The normal sustained write in HQ mode max is around 40mbps = 5MB/s,
But, sustained data rates is only one aspect.

Check it out and report back.
Try the overcrank test.
The SanDisk can overcrank to 40FPS without error. I believe this calculates near 8.3MB/s write speed.
So these cards have decent headroom for HQ modes.

Thanks Alex,
Man, those SxS cards are fast!

October 2nd, 2008, 05:05 PM	#440
Ted OMalley Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 596	Previously, I'd been shopping for an Expresscard reader that wasn't USB. How would the speed of a PCIe based SxS reader accessing the Kensington/SanDisk solution compare to the speed of a USB based SD card reader? Is it worth the effort? __________________ Sony EX3, Vegas 9.0 64bit, Windows 7(64), Core i7, 12GB, RAID1 & 0, HotSwap SATA, 30" LCD(2560x1600)-GTX285 & 24" LCD(1360x768)-7800GT

October 2nd, 2008, 11:28 AM	#436
Bruce Rawlings Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK Posts: 410	What a great day today has been. EX1 returned from Sony Pencoed in just 2 days fully sorted out and firmware upgraded at 10-30 this morning. Kensington Express reader arrives at 11am with Sandisk 8gb cards. 11-05 all working well in EX1. Thank you all for your investigative work it is very much appreciated. Who is going to design a small plastic cover to fit in the card opening?

October 2nd, 2008, 12:47 PM	#438
Bruce Rawlings Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK Posts: 410	Exactly Steve. I ordered 4 kensingtons for now as I think the SD cards could easily be lost. It is a feeling of liberation now that cards are cheap. Will still use SxS for really important shoots but can now shoot with Sandisk Extreme II/III and not bother to download during a normal days shooting. I am sure that when the news gets out it will mean bucket loads of EX1/3 being sold.

October 2nd, 2008, 04:47 PM	#439
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	Steve--which sxs Sony reader are you saying is PCIe based? Will the Kensington work with the SBAC-10 USB Sony sxs reader, as it's a usb interface? Anyone compared downloads with the SD cards in the usb reader vs Sxs in the same reader?

October 2nd, 2008, 05:15 PM	#441
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong), the expresscard bus is capable of using one or both of the following data buses: USB and/or PCIe. The Kensington expresscard is USB based only and will not work with the Sony SBAC-10 which is PCIe based ONLY. My understanding is the original EX1 software (prior to current 1.1), only allows PCIe communication. This is the high speed comm used with the SxS cards. My guess is Sony enabled USB to allow their new PHU-60K viso capture drive to work with the EX series. This drive is obviously USB based.

October 2nd, 2008, 05:38 PM	#442
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	Sorry to be so thick, Steve, but I'm still confused. The PHU-60 connects ONLY with a USB cable to the Mac. It won't work with the Kensington ?

October 2nd, 2008, 05:40 PM	#443
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	No, the kensington is an expresscard to SDHC media adapter.

October 2nd, 2008, 05:41 PM	#444
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	I meant the SBAC-10 USB reader.

October 2nd, 2008, 05:57 PM	#445
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	I have not tried, but I'm "almost" 100% sure the Kensington (USB based) will not work with the SBAC-10 PCIe based only (I believe).

October 2nd, 2008, 07:38 PM	#446
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	I must be a big nerd because I find this whole thread quite exciting. :) I look forward to reading it when I get home... LOL As soon as I get the camera I will test out some Optima PNY 4gb class-4 SDHC I have laying around.

October 2nd, 2008, 08:28 PM	#447
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Great Erik. Report back. Also run the Crystal Disk Mark utility. Watch it run though. Don't just wait for the results. Because it runs each test five times, it only takes one write or read to drop below the required data rate and the EX will fail. The SanDisk devices have a sustained data write and read above 15MB/s, this is what makes these SDHC a stable choice.

October 2nd, 2008, 09:30 PM	#448
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	tested it.. the numbers only went up and down by a few tenths during the test. Are these good? I gotta go back at look at the other results. Seq= R 19.37 - W 7.561 512k= R 19.15 - W 2.234 4k= R 4.142 - W 0.024

October 2nd, 2008, 09:35 PM	#449
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Erik Here's a re-post of my results for the comparison. Mine is actually Cables Unlimited Card Reader IOC-9750 adapter + Sandisk Extreme III 30MB/s card combo. Crystal Mark readings of my adapter/card combo (5 tests): Read Seq: 19.38; 512K: 19.17; 4K: 3.706 MB/s Write: Seq: 15.80; 512K: 3.344; 4K: 0.033 MB/s On comparison, SxS Sandisk card, 16Gb, rendered: Read Seq: 99.53; 512K: 96.14; 4K: 9.84 MB/s Write: Seq: 79.19; 512K: 7.297; 4K: 0.057 MB/s It would appear that your card's read speed is good, but write speed is not enough? I'm sure Steven knows better though.

October 2nd, 2008, 09:52 PM	#450
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Erik, Thanks for the quick turn around on your tests. I agree with Alex, you may be a bit on the slow side for write speed. The 16GB Ultra II 15MB/s SDHC sustained write speed is over 15MB/s and only sells for less than $70 USD. Having said that, your PNY may work in HQ modes. The normal sustained write in HQ mode max is around 40mbps = 5MB/s, But, sustained data rates is only one aspect. Check it out and report back. Try the overcrank test. The SanDisk can overcrank to 40FPS without error. I believe this calculates near 8.3MB/s write speed. So these cards have decent headroom for HQ modes. Thanks Alex, Man, those SxS cards are fast!