SDHC substitute for SxS cards

[Andres Posada]

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

Sony could really turn this in to something great.

First of all work with SanDisk and find out how to address the coding for their new Extreme III 30MB/s SDHC cards to allow the cards to be used to their full potential

I bet Sony could double or triple their EX sales if they take this route!

[Marten Dalfors]

Originally Posted by Keith Moreau

Hi Marten

I've repeatedly recorded full cards of the Transcend 16GB / Kensington Adapter with no corruption problems at normal speed HQ. I have a Mac and use the XDCam Transfer version 2.7. I don't open the files directly from the BPAV folder, but after the XDCam Transfer has 'wrapped' them in whatever way it does from the original MP4 files.

At what 'overcrank' settings caused problems? My limit for the Transcend was 720P-24P 38 FPS.

What are you using to view the MP4 files and how does your software tell you the file is corrupted?

I couldn't copy the files with the OS. Also tried the EX clipbrowser. Also the corrupted mp4 file could not be deleted, had to reformat the card.

I haven't tested the exact overcrank FPS, I couldn't do 50FPS.

I'm glad it's working for others, my setup is not reliable. I'm thinking of buying an UltraII card to try.

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

Sony could really turn this in to something great.

First of all work with SanDisk and find out how to address the coding for their new Extreme III 30MB/s SDHC cards .............

Next, have their own expresscard media adaptor manufactured ...........

Even more satisfactory would be to bring out "SxS lite". Physically etc they would be SxS cards - but with the performance more along the lines of the SDHC cards you've been looking at, lower than "true" SxS. And, obviously, at a (much) lower price than "true" SxS. From Sonys point of view they could guarantee a (lower) level of service.

Users with big budgets would still want the standard SxS cards for speed of downloading etc, but for many "SxS lite" would be good enough - same as the SDHC cards plus adaptor - whilst still being far cheaper than full spec cards. They would also bring the day of solid state being able to be used in a shoot, give to client mode much nearer.

I foresee 50Mbs being the next big step for Sony in cameras like the EX, as they now have it on the PDW700, and I'd hope any "SxS lite" to at least be capable of guaranteed performance at that bit rate. Do you think your SDHC/adaptor would be capable of that? The question isn't just academic, as I believe there will be an SxS adaptor for the PDW700.

An interesting thread, with some great work. Well done.

[Steven Thomas]

David, that's a good idea regarding SxS lite cards.

I'm just hoping Sony wakes up that the expresscard/SDHC combo would greatly increase their sells on their EX XDCAM series.


I've seen sustained write and read speeds exceeding 30MB/s using USB 2.0 drives.
Since the new SanDisk Extreme III SDHC is capable of 30MB/s, Sony could work this out quickly. The top data rate needed for the current EX series is 12.5MB/s.

[Alex Raskin]

What's wrong with Sony simply bringing down the prices of their current, fast SxS cards to match the Kensington+Sandisk Extreme III... plus a bit of a premium since they still are a bit faster to support S&Q modes.

Say, $299 for a 16Gb SxS card, in current prices.

[Steven Thomas]

I hear you.
I guess it depends on current manufacturing costs.
$900 is just WAY to much for these 16GB cards.

[Alex Raskin]

In no-competition environment, sure they can set prices based on costs.

But since the alternative solution (thanks to you and others who pioneered it!) is only about $170, market rules will apply. (Unless Sony is looking for a part of the bailout package, hehe...)

By the way, current street price of 16Gb SxS card is not $900, it's $740 at B&H:

SanDisk | 16GB ExpressCard Pro Media | SDX-VS-016GR | B&H Photo

(just click "add to shopping cart" to get that lower price.)

I own this card, it is made by Sandisk (second S in SxS moniker), and it works exactly like Sony ones, no issues/errors of any kind.

So we are asking for, roughly, 2x reduction against the current prices, which are grossly inflated in the first place. If not Sony, I'd definitely expect Sandisk to make the move.

And, as the cost of other fast Sandisk media goes down, I'd expect SxS cards to track it and also get lower yet.

[Alex Raskin]

By the way... I don't remember if this adapter was ever tested and if it worked or not?

SanDisk | ExpressCard Adapter | SDAD-109R | B&H Photo Video

[Steven Thomas]

Originally Posted by Alex Raskin

By the way... I don't remember if this adapter was ever tested and if it worked or not?

SanDisk | ExpressCard Adapter | SDAD-109R | B&H Photo Video

I believe it was tested. If not, I'm not sure if we want to test it based on the review on the site you posted. It appears it does not have the push/push media slot, so the SDHC card will stick out like the Kensington.

[Alister Chapman]

Just done another round of tests with some new transcend 16Gb class 6 cards and the kensington adapter. No issues at up to 48fps S&Q. Perhaps Marten has a fake card, all my Transcend cards have worked perfectly with HQ mode. Spanned, timelapse, short clips, long clips, I can't break them in HQ mode.

[Paul Kellett]

Alistair.
I've come to the same conclusion with the 8gb transcend, i've got 3 of them, all have performed faultlessly.
Probably gonna get a few 16gb's now.
Can get 16gb's for £26 or the 8gb's for £12.
That's just ridiculous prices, they might as well just give them away.

Paul.

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Alex Raskin

What's wrong with Sony simply bringing down the prices of their current, fast SxS cards to match the Kensington+Sandisk Extreme III....

I suspect they are pretty difficult to manufacture, and if you compare them to other cards in other ranges (SDHC, CF etc), the pricing isn't that surprising. From the B&H website:

(All 16GB cards)
Sandisk Ultra II - 9/10MB/s - $73.50 (SDHC)
Sandisk Extreme III - 30MB/s - $169.95 (SDHC)
Sandisk Extreme IV - 40MB/s - $244.95 (CF)
Sony 306x - 46MB/s - $399.95 (CF)

Since SxS cards are rated at 100MB/s (800Mb/s) I don't therefore find their pricing surprising, and I don't see them just cutting their prices to the Extreme III level. But SDHC, CF etc cards are available in a range of speeds (and sizes) and I don't see any reason why that shouldn't be the case for SxS. Why not an Extreme III version of SxS, rated at 30MB/s, and priced around $200-250 for 16GB, as an alternative to the full spec version?

Not as good as full spec SxS, but good enough for most work, and I agree that it would help to sell many, many more EX cameras.

In the meantime, the ability to use SDHC cards with an adaptor has much merit. I don't see Sony promoting it as such - too many variables, and the possibility of too many telephone queries! ("No sir, the problem is you need a class 6 card, not that cheap thing you picked up at the market......") With "SxS lite" it becomes far more under their control.

[Volker Ide]

Hi,

First of all to all: "THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTENSIV INVESTIGATION"

I followed the thread and i bought the Kensington adaptor for about 20 EU in Germany and the Transcend 8 GB for 12 EU and the The SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s for about 60 EU and i tested them in 720/50p 1080/50i and S&Q etc. they work fine without any errors. I´ve got an delock adapter to transfer them to my mac - no problem.
Well, I´ve bought a few SXS cards and they cost a lot of money - with this solution i´m pretty happy saving a lot of money.
And it´s look still professional.

Volker
__________________
Producer/Cameraman/TV-Journalist
TVDOCS IDE FILM+FERNSEHEN TV PRODUKTIONEN NEWS REPORTAGEN DOKUMENTATIONEN MEDIZIN WISSENSCHAFT & KULTUR TV Journalist Volker Ide

[Steven Thomas]

Originally Posted by David Heath

Since SxS cards are rated at 100MB/s (800Mb/s) I don't therefore find their pricing surprising, and I don't see them just cutting their prices to the Extreme III level. But SDHC, CF etc cards are available in a range of speeds (and sizes) and I don't see any reason why that shouldn't be the case for SxS. Why not an Extreme III version of SxS, rated at 30MB/s, and priced around $200-250 for 16GB, as an alternative to the full spec version?

Makes a lot of sense. They could relabel the cheaper cards to SxS Lite (30MB/s verison) or something.

Yes, based on the SxS 100MB/s fast data rate, it appears they are ready for their next launch of 4:2:2 50mbps EX cameras.

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

Yes, based on the SxS 100MB/s fast data rate, it appears they are ready for their next launch of 4:2:2 50mbps EX cameras.

Well, their quoted speed is *16x* that of the 50Mbs system that the PDW700 uses, so it leaves me wondering what else they may be readying for in the future? :) Apart from very quick downloading!