Filmed gig on EX3 and no rolling shutter problems! at DVinfo.net

Phil Bloom · September 9th, 2008, 02:26 PM

Perhaps new firmware on this and the EX1 has made a difference but I am over in Siberia making a doco and oddly filmed the legend that is Deep Purple in concert and then fireworks, strobes, flashes everything and looking at the footage got no visible half frames...

Has anyone else had better results recently with flashes? Or did I just get really lucky with every shot!? I shot a wedding for a friend 2 months back on the EX1 with old firmware and had half frame flashes galore...grim.

I did shoot using the Canon 20x 1/2" HD lens but that wouldn't have made a difference...

Alister Chapman · September 9th, 2008, 02:41 PM

Certainly on my recent lightning shoot with the EX3 there were very few partial frames.

Have to ask the engineers at IBC. See you there, 2pm every day on the Sony stand.

Dean Harrington · September 9th, 2008, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

Perhaps new firmware on this and the EX1 has made a difference but I am over in Siberia making a doco and oddly filmed the legend that is Deep Purple in concert and then fireworks, strobes, flashes everything and looking at the footage got no visible half frames...

Has anyone else had better results recently with flashes? Or did I just get really lucky with every shot!? I shot a wedding for a friend 2 months back on the EX1 with old firmware and had half frame flashes galore...grim.

I did shoot using the Canon 20x 1/2" HD lens but that wouldn't have made a difference...

Some of that footage for our viewing would be a good thing. Sounds promising!

Benjamin Eckstein · September 9th, 2008, 04:44 PM

Would that mean that the SKEW issue is improved too?

Seems unlikely but that'd certainly be cool!

B

Steven Thomas · September 9th, 2008, 05:28 PM

Phil,
You are the second person that mentioned this..
I read a similar response on this forum:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdca...-exposure.html

Hmmm...
If it's improved, I wonder how?

Phil Bloom · September 9th, 2008, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Harrington

Some of that footage for our viewing would be a good thing. Sounds promising!

you old rocker Dean. I dont own copyright of footage so would have to check but I was shocked when I watched it back.

Phil Bloom · September 9th, 2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

Phil,
You are the second person that mentioned this..
I read a similar response on this forum:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdca...-exposure.html

Hmmm...
If it's improved, I wonder how?

So it isn't just the EX3. Weird that Sony haven't publised this as it's a MAJOR improvement. Unless of course it is a side effect of something else they have done...

Phil Bloom · September 9th, 2008, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

Certainly on my recent lightning shoot with the EX3 there were very few partial frames.

Have to ask the engineers at IBC. See you there, 2pm every day on the Sony stand.

Cool, see you on Saturday.

Alex da Silva · September 9th, 2008, 11:31 PM

Very interesting possibility, that of a firmware to improve on a considerable flaw.
One of my biggest concerns with the EX-3 is that of the rolling shutter issues.
I have problems using the EX-1 with the older firmware shooting a concert and later on a moving car (jellovision), so I'm really excited about improvements on a, otherwise, fantastic camera.

Phil Bloom · September 11th, 2008, 06:56 AM

it's still there. Done flash at lens test. As bad as ever, but the gig footage coped really well. Odd.

Will post a clip to show asap

Alexander Kubalsky · September 11th, 2008, 09:26 AM

Maybe they still have some Soviet Era Speed flashes over in Siberia.

Steven Thomas · September 11th, 2008, 10:33 AM

It did seem to good to be true..

Concert lighting stobe effects are usually done with mechanical shutters which are slower.
I have Martin and Elation moving head stage lighting that use mechanical shutters. The EX1 has no problems with these lights.

Alex da Silva · September 11th, 2008, 11:18 AM

It figures.
Just talked to a friend today in SF and he told me of his experience operating cameras on a recent Music Festival in Golden Gate Park. The bands that use newer LED lighting technology, Radiohead for example, had really bad issues with rolling shutter cameras. The old style strobes did well. He also mentioned the comparable more intense output of the LED based fixtures which made proper exposure much harder.
I've pointed him to this forum.

Dave Morrison · September 11th, 2008, 11:47 AM

This definitely sounds like the flash duration is the culprit. I might have to dig out some of my older studio strobes along with the hotshoe-mounted types and do some comparisons.

Steven Thomas · September 11th, 2008, 11:49 AM

Very true...
Also, some LED technology can cause flicker with ANY camera based on how LED lighting is dimmed.
I've fought this with different cameras, not just the EX1.

LEDs use PWM (Pulse width Modulation) to reduce their stay on time. Based on their circuit design and speed can cause flicker issues. I have to leave my LED lighting at full or it will flicker. Some high end LED lighting does not have this issue.

September 9th, 2008, 02:26 PM	#1
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	Filmed gig on EX3 and no rolling shutter problems! Perhaps new firmware on this and the EX1 has made a difference but I am over in Siberia making a doco and oddly filmed the legend that is Deep Purple in concert and then fireworks, strobes, flashes everything and looking at the footage got no visible half frames... Has anyone else had better results recently with flashes? Or did I just get really lucky with every shot!? I shot a wedding for a friend 2 months back on the EX1 with old firmware and had half frame flashes galore...grim. I did shoot using the Canon 20x 1/2" HD lens but that wouldn't have made a difference... __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

September 9th, 2008, 02:41 PM	#2
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Certainly on my recent lightning shoot with the EX3 there were very few partial frames. Have to ask the engineers at IBC. See you there, 2pm every day on the Sony stand. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

September 9th, 2008, 11:31 PM	#9
Alex da Silva New Boot Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 23	Very interesting possibility, that of a firmware to improve on a considerable flaw. One of my biggest concerns with the EX-3 is that of the rolling shutter issues. I have problems using the EX-1 with the older firmware shooting a concert and later on a moving car (jellovision), so I'm really excited about improvements on a, otherwise, fantastic camera. Last edited by Alex da Silva; September 10th, 2008 at 01:27 PM.

September 11th, 2008, 06:56 AM	#10
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	it's still there. Done flash at lens test. As bad as ever, but the gig footage coped really well. Odd. Will post a clip to show asap __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

September 11th, 2008, 11:47 AM	#14
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	This definitely sounds like the flash duration is the culprit. I might have to dig out some of my older studio strobes along with the hotshoe-mounted types and do some comparisons. __________________ EX1, Nikon D750 http://www.morrisonphotographics.com http://www.heritagefilm.com

September 9th, 2008, 04:44 PM	#4
Benjamin Eckstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 380 Images: 1	Would that mean that the SKEW issue is improved too? Seems unlikely but that'd certainly be cool! B

September 9th, 2008, 05:28 PM	#5
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Phil, You are the second person that mentioned this.. I read a similar response on this forum: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdca...-exposure.html Hmmm... If it's improved, I wonder how?

September 11th, 2008, 09:26 AM	#11
Alexander Kubalsky Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Japan Posts: 172	Maybe they still have some Soviet Era Speed flashes over in Siberia.

September 11th, 2008, 10:33 AM	#12
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	It did seem to good to be true.. Concert lighting stobe effects are usually done with mechanical shutters which are slower. I have Martin and Elation moving head stage lighting that use mechanical shutters. The EX1 has no problems with these lights.

September 11th, 2008, 11:18 AM	#13
Alex da Silva New Boot Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 23	It figures. Just talked to a friend today in SF and he told me of his experience operating cameras on a recent Music Festival in Golden Gate Park. The bands that use newer LED lighting technology, Radiohead for example, had really bad issues with rolling shutter cameras. The old style strobes did well. He also mentioned the comparable more intense output of the LED based fixtures which made proper exposure much harder. I've pointed him to this forum.

September 11th, 2008, 11:49 AM	#15
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Very true... Also, some LED technology can cause flicker with ANY camera based on how LED lighting is dimmed. I've fought this with different cameras, not just the EX1. LEDs use PWM (Pulse width Modulation) to reduce their stay on time. Based on their circuit design and speed can cause flicker issues. I have to leave my LED lighting at full or it will flicker. Some high end LED lighting does not have this issue.