low low audio level from handheld mic... any suggestions? at DVinfo.net

Malcolm Hamilton · August 8th, 2008, 04:25 PM

Hi there,
My camera mic (Rode NTG-1) picks up good audio, at a good level... but the handheld mic I got (Beyer M58), even when I have the input level up to close to 10, records at a very low level.
Any suggestions as to how I might fix this?
Thanks, Malcolm

Adam Reuter · August 9th, 2008, 11:53 AM

I would first test the Beyer with another camera or audio mixer to see that the microphone isn't the problem. If it's working fine with other audio systems then one setting you should look into is attenuation under the audio menu.

Your Rode mic is a powered condenser and your Beyer is an unpowered dynamic microphone. Dynamics are a lot less sensitive than condensers because of their lack of phantom power. Make sure your 48v switch is off at the EX1's audio. It may not be the cause of the problem but it's worth a try to see if this does anything. Try both audio inputs as well.

Malcolm Hamilton · August 9th, 2008, 02:37 PM

thanks for the reply, Adam, and the advice. I've tried the Beyer in both inputs... same low input. I've also made sure that the 48v switch is off. I guess I better have someone look at the mic. It's brand new.
Regards,
Malcolm

Bob Grant · August 9th, 2008, 03:18 PM

If the mic is OK Rode make a little preamp built into a XLR plug/socket for exactly this problem. Runs off phantom power so dead simple to use and pretty cheap.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...e_Mounted.html

Bill Davis · August 9th, 2008, 05:35 PM

Malcolm,

The M-58 is a dynamic ENG mic purpose designed to for close-micing the human speech (like 1 to 6 inches from the mouth) of the person using it. Like most dynamics it's not particularly sensitive. Nor should it be.

The Rode, by contrast is a powered directional condenser mic. IT is supposed to be very sensitive.

Expecting them to work in any way similarly is TOTALLY missing the point of these two different mic types.

The Rode requires phantom power and careful mounting and handling to avoid mechanical noise. The Beyer requires NOTHING but an XLR connection and you can nervously stroke it like a pet cat during an interview and you'll never hear a bit of handling noise.

You'd be nuts to use the RODE to do a handheld field talking head interview. And you'd be equally nuts to mount the M-58 on your camera.

Try using the M-58 for what it's designed for.

Turn the Phantom Power OFF on the XLR input you plug it into (phantom doesn't hurt a dynamic mic - hardly anything outside a direct hit from a hammer will hurt a properly built dynamic mic - it just requires NO power whatsoever to work properly) Set the input to handle standard balanced microphone input levels - plug in any XLR cable up to 100 feet and hand the Beyer on the other end of the cable to someone who can stick it in their own or an interviewee's face describing something - and you'll get great audio.

Just don't expect these two mics to respond the same - they employ TOTALLY different designs.

Hope that helps.

Malcolm Hamilton · August 9th, 2008, 08:21 PM

Actually, Bill, that helps a lot. I'll leave the Rode right where it is, and I now know to have the Beyer close to someone's mouth for the "streeters" I need it for. Thanks so much.
Malcolm

Paul Newman · August 10th, 2008, 02:04 AM

No one has mentioned the preset mic input levels in the menu. I just wondered, as I had a similar issue with a standard ECM 55 pin mic, and found the input pad is factory set to -45dB - too low. If you set it to -65dB which is a "normal" sensitivity for a mic input all becomes clear.

You then have decent adjust on your external knob.

Paul

Malcolm Hamilton · August 10th, 2008, 02:18 PM

Thanks for that, Paul... I just checked (it's the Audio Input Trim levels, right?), and upped mine to -56db. To me it's counterintuitive that a bigger minus number makes for louder audio, but I just checked the little meters, and at -56db, I'm getting higher meter readings. I hope this means I won't have to continue to double or triple up my audio tracks in editing to get a decent output level!
cheers, Malcolm

August 8th, 2008, 04:25 PM	#1
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	low low audio level from handheld mic... any suggestions? Hi there, My camera mic (Rode NTG-1) picks up good audio, at a good level... but the handheld mic I got (Beyer M58), even when I have the input level up to close to 10, records at a very low level. Any suggestions as to how I might fix this? Thanks, Malcolm

August 10th, 2008, 02:04 AM	#7
Paul Newman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Agua Blanca Ibiza Posts: 305	No one has mentioned the preset mic input levels in the menu. I just wondered, as I had a similar issue with a standard ECM 55 pin mic, and found the input pad is factory set to -45dB - too low. If you set it to -65dB which is a "normal" sensitivity for a mic input all becomes clear. You then have decent adjust on your external knob. Paul __________________ Another Sunny Day in Ibiza

August 9th, 2008, 11:53 AM	#2
Adam Reuter Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 234	I would first test the Beyer with another camera or audio mixer to see that the microphone isn't the problem. If it's working fine with other audio systems then one setting you should look into is attenuation under the audio menu. Your Rode mic is a powered condenser and your Beyer is an unpowered dynamic microphone. Dynamics are a lot less sensitive than condensers because of their lack of phantom power. Make sure your 48v switch is off at the EX1's audio. It may not be the cause of the problem but it's worth a try to see if this does anything. Try both audio inputs as well.

August 9th, 2008, 02:37 PM	#3
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	thanks for the reply, Adam, and the advice. I've tried the Beyer in both inputs... same low input. I've also made sure that the 48v switch is off. I guess I better have someone look at the mic. It's brand new. Regards, Malcolm

August 9th, 2008, 03:18 PM	#4
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	If the mic is OK Rode make a little preamp built into a XLR plug/socket for exactly this problem. Runs off phantom power so dead simple to use and pretty cheap. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...e_Mounted.html

August 9th, 2008, 05:35 PM	#5
Bill Davis Trustee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Posts: 1,538	Malcolm, The M-58 is a dynamic ENG mic purpose designed to for close-micing the human speech (like 1 to 6 inches from the mouth) of the person using it. Like most dynamics it's not particularly sensitive. Nor should it be. The Rode, by contrast is a powered directional condenser mic. IT is supposed to be very sensitive. Expecting them to work in any way similarly is TOTALLY missing the point of these two different mic types. The Rode requires phantom power and careful mounting and handling to avoid mechanical noise. The Beyer requires NOTHING but an XLR connection and you can nervously stroke it like a pet cat during an interview and you'll never hear a bit of handling noise. You'd be nuts to use the RODE to do a handheld field talking head interview. And you'd be equally nuts to mount the M-58 on your camera. Try using the M-58 for what it's designed for. Turn the Phantom Power OFF on the XLR input you plug it into (phantom doesn't hurt a dynamic mic - hardly anything outside a direct hit from a hammer will hurt a properly built dynamic mic - it just requires NO power whatsoever to work properly) Set the input to handle standard balanced microphone input levels - plug in any XLR cable up to 100 feet and hand the Beyer on the other end of the cable to someone who can stick it in their own or an interviewee's face describing something - and you'll get great audio. Just don't expect these two mics to respond the same - they employ TOTALLY different designs. Hope that helps.

August 9th, 2008, 08:21 PM	#6
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Actually, Bill, that helps a lot. I'll leave the Rode right where it is, and I now know to have the Beyer close to someone's mouth for the "streeters" I need it for. Thanks so much. Malcolm

August 10th, 2008, 02:18 PM	#8
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Thanks for that, Paul... I just checked (it's the Audio Input Trim levels, right?), and upped mine to -56db. To me it's counterintuitive that a bigger minus number makes for louder audio, but I just checked the little meters, and at -56db, I'm getting higher meter readings. I hope this means I won't have to continue to double or triple up my audio tracks in editing to get a decent output level! cheers, Malcolm