EX3, Relay Lens and 35mm adapter question at DVinfo.net

Alexander Kubalsky · August 5th, 2008, 09:15 AM

Lets say you have a relay lens and 35mm adapter to go straight on the body of the EX3. Would that 35mm adapter then no longer need the flip module?

I have read somewhere that the image coming into the camera off any attached lens, be that a relay/DOF adapter rig or a traditional attachable lens, hits the sensor upside down and is flipped by the camera rightway up automatically.

Sorry if this has been asked somewhere before. I like the idea of a lighter adapter without flip module.

EDIT: Reworded to avoid confusion.

Oyvind Stokkan · August 5th, 2008, 09:20 AM

They relay lens will flip the image. If not, it wouldn't be called a lens.

Of course we all wish there were some way to focus on the 35mm adapter plane without a lens but that's not possible.

But then again, the RED One isn't that expensive.. Thinking about getting one.

Alexander Kubalsky · August 5th, 2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oyvind Stokkan

They relay lens will flip the image. If not, it wouldn't be called a lens.

Of course we all wish there were some way to focus on the 35mm adapter plane without a lens but that's not possible.

But then again, the RED One isn't that expensive.. Thinking about getting one.

I think you misunderstood my question. I know a relay lens is necessary to condense the 35mm image down to a half inch image for the EX3 to pick up. As far as I'm aware the relay lens doesn't flip an image, only changes its size between plains. Im just curious as to whether the prism flip module on most 35mm adapters is still needed.

Henry Peplow · August 5th, 2008, 10:23 AM

As far as I know...

the EX3 has a mirror 'flip' function for the LCD screen, so you can see the image correctly without the prism, then flip it in post. It'd be much nicer to work without the flip on the camera lens. I don't have an EX3, so I don't know for sure how this works.

Someone needs to make a flip adapter for the EX1's LCD. A mini prism... or something.

Ted OMalley · August 5th, 2008, 10:41 AM

Yes, turning on the "Mirror Image" switch flips the viewfinder.

Alexander,

My understanding of the Relay lens is that it can be a "stand-in" for the factory lens in order to reduce the overall size when using another lens by way of a 35mm lens adapter, for example.

If you plan to use 1/2 lenses on the EX3 - the included adapter will suffice, no flip needed since there is no glass in it.

If you plan to use 2/3 lenses on the EX3 - the included adapter plus an additional adaptor is needed - I don't know much about this.

If you plan to use 35mm lenses on a letus or brevis or SG or some other lens adapter system in front of the camera lens, then the image will be reversed on the camera unless the adapter comes with a flip module. The switch on the viewfinder of the EX3 will flip the viewed image, but the recorded image will need to be flipped in post.

If you plan to use 35mm lenses on a letus or brevis or SG or some other lens adapter WITHOUT the factory lens attached, as I intend to at some point, then a relay lens is needed to take the place of the lens, and the 35mm adapter attaches to the relay lens, and the 35mm lens attaches to the 35mm adapter. If no flip module is used, the image will be flipped. The switch on the viewfinder of the EX3 will flip the viewed image, but the recorded image will need to be flipped in post.

And now, I've just reread your question again and the short answer is that yes, you will need a flip. The relay lens does flip the image exactly the way the standard lens (or any lens) does.

Alexander Kubalsky · August 5th, 2008, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted OMalley

Yes, turning on the "Mirror Image" switch flips the viewfinder.

Alexander,

My understanding of the Relay lens is that it can be a "stand-in" for the factory lens in order to reduce the overall size when using another lens by way of a 35mm lens adapter, for example.

If you plan to use 1/2 lenses on the EX3 - the included adapter will suffice, no flip needed since there is no glass in it.

If you plan to use 2/3 lenses on the EX3 - the included adapter plus an additional adaptor is needed - I don't know much about this.

If you plan to use 35mm lenses on a letus or brevis or SG or some other lens adapter system in front of the camera lens, then the image will be reversed on the camera unless the adapter comes with a flip module. The switch on the viewfinder of the EX3 will flip the viewed image, but the recorded image will need to be flipped in post.

If you plan to use 35mm lenses on a letus or brevis or SG or some other lens adapter WITHOUT the factory lens attached, as I intend to at some point, then a relay lens is needed to take the place of the lens, and the 35mm adapter attaches to the relay lens, and the 35mm lens attaches to the 35mm adapter. If no flip module is used, the image will be flipped. The switch on the viewfinder of the EX3 will flip the viewed image, but the recorded image will need to be flipped in post.

And now, I've just reread your question again and the short answer is that yes, you will need a flip. The relay lens does flip the image exactly the way the standard lens (or any lens) does.

Thanks for the thorough reply. Yes I understand the relay lens to be just as you say. I saw the 2/3 inch to 1/2 inch relay lens at an EX3 presentation the other day. $2000!
The viewfinder flip option on the EX3 sounds great, I wish they could have that feature on the EX1. Firmware upgrade perhaps? I have an EX1 Letus extreme setup at the moment. Love the extreme but long for the day we don't need the big flip prism.

Oyvind Stokkan · August 5th, 2008, 12:24 PM

I was right after all ;)

Sitting here in Poland. Finished a shoot at noon so all day at the hotel watching lame movies. Not much to do in this old city. Having a second dinner at the hotel restaurant now!

Cheers

Noah Yuan-Vogel · August 5th, 2008, 07:56 PM

I think some of the confusion might be that people are talking about different kinds of relay lenses? My understanding is that there are relay lenses that are intended to adjust the image coming through another lens (like the 2/3" to 1/2" relay) and those that are really just normal lenses but are optimized for viewing a diffusion screen in a lens adapter (mini35, letus, etc). both types of relays exist for a variety of formats. the first type still only has one image plane and converts focal length and field of view of the lens to fit the camera format which does not maintain the original lens's depth of field, whereas the second has two planes, one where the image is diffused and the other where the image is recorded and converts field of view without sacrificing focal length, maintaining the dof. two image planes means two flips, one image plane means one flip. cameras are usually made to only expect one flip.

someone correct me if im wrong.

August 5th, 2008, 09:15 AM	#1
Alexander Kubalsky Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Japan Posts: 172	EX3, Relay Lens and 35mm adapter question Lets say you have a relay lens and 35mm adapter to go straight on the body of the EX3. Would that 35mm adapter then no longer need the flip module? I have read somewhere that the image coming into the camera off any attached lens, be that a relay/DOF adapter rig or a traditional attachable lens, hits the sensor upside down and is flipped by the camera rightway up automatically. Sorry if this has been asked somewhere before. I like the idea of a lighter adapter without flip module. EDIT: Reworded to avoid confusion. Last edited by Alexander Kubalsky; August 5th, 2008 at 12:17 PM.

August 5th, 2008, 09:20 AM	#2
Oyvind Stokkan Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Grimstad, Norway Posts: 112	They relay lens will flip the image. If not, it wouldn't be called a lens. Of course we all wish there were some way to focus on the 35mm adapter plane without a lens but that's not possible. But then again, the RED One isn't that expensive.. Thinking about getting one. __________________ PMW-EX1 and Letus Extreme user www.oyvindstokkan.no

August 5th, 2008, 10:41 AM	#5
Ted OMalley Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 596	Yes, turning on the "Mirror Image" switch flips the viewfinder. Alexander, My understanding of the Relay lens is that it can be a "stand-in" for the factory lens in order to reduce the overall size when using another lens by way of a 35mm lens adapter, for example. If you plan to use 1/2 lenses on the EX3 - the included adapter will suffice, no flip needed since there is no glass in it. If you plan to use 2/3 lenses on the EX3 - the included adapter plus an additional adaptor is needed - I don't know much about this. If you plan to use 35mm lenses on a letus or brevis or SG or some other lens adapter system in front of the camera lens, then the image will be reversed on the camera unless the adapter comes with a flip module. The switch on the viewfinder of the EX3 will flip the viewed image, but the recorded image will need to be flipped in post. If you plan to use 35mm lenses on a letus or brevis or SG or some other lens adapter WITHOUT the factory lens attached, as I intend to at some point, then a relay lens is needed to take the place of the lens, and the 35mm adapter attaches to the relay lens, and the 35mm lens attaches to the 35mm adapter. If no flip module is used, the image will be flipped. The switch on the viewfinder of the EX3 will flip the viewed image, but the recorded image will need to be flipped in post. And now, I've just reread your question again and the short answer is that yes, you will need a flip. The relay lens does flip the image exactly the way the standard lens (or any lens) does. __________________ Sony EX3, Vegas 9.0 64bit, Windows 7(64), Core i7, 12GB, RAID1 & 0, HotSwap SATA, 30" LCD(2560x1600)-GTX285 & 24" LCD(1360x768)-7800GT

August 5th, 2008, 12:24 PM	#7
Oyvind Stokkan Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Grimstad, Norway Posts: 112	I was right after all ;) Sitting here in Poland. Finished a shoot at noon so all day at the hotel watching lame movies. Not much to do in this old city. Having a second dinner at the hotel restaurant now! Cheers __________________ PMW-EX1 and Letus Extreme user www.oyvindstokkan.no

August 5th, 2008, 10:23 AM	#4
Henry Peplow New Boot Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 12	As far as I know... the EX3 has a mirror 'flip' function for the LCD screen, so you can see the image correctly without the prism, then flip it in post. It'd be much nicer to work without the flip on the camera lens. I don't have an EX3, so I don't know for sure how this works. Someone needs to make a flip adapter for the EX1's LCD. A mini prism... or something.

August 5th, 2008, 07:56 PM	#8
Noah Yuan-Vogel Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New York City Posts: 613	I think some of the confusion might be that people are talking about different kinds of relay lenses? My understanding is that there are relay lenses that are intended to adjust the image coming through another lens (like the 2/3" to 1/2" relay) and those that are really just normal lenses but are optimized for viewing a diffusion screen in a lens adapter (mini35, letus, etc). both types of relays exist for a variety of formats. the first type still only has one image plane and converts focal length and field of view of the lens to fit the camera format which does not maintain the original lens's depth of field, whereas the second has two planes, one where the image is diffused and the other where the image is recorded and converts field of view without sacrificing focal length, maintaining the dof. two image planes means two flips, one image plane means one flip. cameras are usually made to only expect one flip. someone correct me if im wrong.