SloMo from an EX1 ?? at DVinfo.net

Andy Nickless · July 23rd, 2008, 11:33 PM

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's managed to produce SloMo from a Sony EX1. (Using Mac in PAL land in particular).

Cinema Tools doesn't want to know 720p 50 fps (I followed the manual exactly but "Conform" was grayed out in the File menu). So where should I go from here?

I thought I'd cracked it with Compressor but on closer scrutiny, the best result I could get was choppy to say the least.

I've also tried Shake but no luck there either. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Any help would be very welcome.

Alister Chapman · July 24th, 2008, 12:58 AM

I've shot loads of footage at 50P and it works fine for me playing back at 25fps in the FCP timeline.

Andy Nickless · July 24th, 2008, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

I've shot loads of footage at 50P and it works fine for me playing back at 25fps in the FCP timeline.

In SLOW MOTION ??

I just changed my Easy Setup to 720p 25 fps, created a new timeline, checked the timeline was 25 fps - the footage simply plays at normal speed.

Paul Kellett · July 24th, 2008, 02:51 AM

I've shot slo-mo, viewed it in vegas and FCP, plays fine in both.
Recorded in 720/25p, frame rate at 60fps.

Paul.

Andy Nickless · July 24th, 2008, 03:16 AM

Thanks Paul and Alister.

Are you saying:
Shoot 720p at 50 (or 60 fps) then drop the QT into a 25 (or 30) fps timeline . . .
and it plays back in Slow Motion?

(Mine just plays at normal speed - unless I'm having a brain failure of some sort).

Paul Kellett · July 24th, 2008, 03:33 AM

Yes.
I record in 720/25p format then in slo-mo put the frame rate up to 60fps.
If you record in 720/50p then jumping up to 60fps isn't much difference, whereas 25 up to 60fps is.

Paul.

Alister Chapman · July 24th, 2008, 03:42 AM

As Paul points out you need to make sure your in the right mode. 720/50P shoots at 720 50fps and plays back at 50fps, so if you drop it in to a 25fps timeline or 50fps timeline it plays back at normal speed.

However if you shoot at HQ 720/25P and then turn on S&Q motion (camera settings page of the menu or press and hold the button on the EX3) and change the frame rate in the S&Q menu then you get slower or quicker than real time playback.

You can use S&Q motion at 1080P up to 30fps.

If you have shot at 720/50P then you can drop the clips into a 25P timeline and slow the clips down by 50% which should then play the clip at 25fps.

Patrick Williams · July 24th, 2008, 03:42 AM

Andy,
It sounds like you want to actually shoot slow-motion with the camera, and there is an easy way to do it. Set the camera to record at 720p HQ 25 frames per second as you would for a normal recording. Then in the camera menu turn on the S&Q setting, and dial in your frame rate up to 60 frames per second. The normal playback of the video will now be slow-motion, and you can drop the clip into a 25fps timeline and it will still be slow-motion. You can't record audio using this method, and you can only overcrank to 30 frames per second if you use 1080p 25. However, most of us think that you can drop a 720p overcranked shot into a 1080p timeline and the video will still look pretty good.
Just noticed that Alister had the posted the answer while I was typing.

Andy Nickless · July 24th, 2008, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kellett

I record in 720/25p format then in slo-mo put the frame rate up to 60fps.

Sorry Paul, I think you've got this wrong.

The idea is to overcrank (record at 50 fps for example) in camera, then play back at the normal speed (25 fps over here) to get the most beautifully smooth slow motion.

With the method you're quoting, FCP does an awful job of interpolating (if there's action in the footage, which of course, there must be). It has to create frames to make the playback slower.

Please watch Michael Mench's tutorial on Slow Motion:
http://library.creativecow.net/artic...o-tutorial.php
It uses Shake but even if you don't have Shake, it's well worth watching the beginning to see what an awful job FCP makes of interpolation.

If you don't have Shake, try this method:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage...es_motion.html

Andy Nickless · July 24th, 2008, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Williams

Set the camera to record at 720p HQ 25 frames per second as you would for a normal recording. Then in the camera menu turn on the S&Q setting, and dial in your frame rate up to 60 frames per second. The normal playback of the video will now be slow-motion, and you can drop the clip into a 25fps timeline and it will still be slow-motion.

Ohhhhh . . ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Nickless

Sorry Paul, I think you've got this wrong.

Oh . . . NO!
(I wish I hadn't posted that).

Sincere apologies, Paul - I obviously have the EX1's settings wrong. Patrick's explanation was clearer than yours but I should have asked you what you meant by changing the frame rate - you meant "in camera" right?

I think I know where my mistake is with the camera and slow motion now. I'll check it out and continue my apology when I know more!

Paul Kellett · July 24th, 2008, 04:02 AM

Andy.
I've recorded enough slo-mo and fast-mo with my EX1 to know what i'm doing.
Have a look at

www.vimeo.com/paulkellett

Look at my friends mma class, there's slo-mo on there, recorded in 720/25p format, in camera slo-mo switched on, frame rate at 60fps.

If you've recorded slo-mo in cam, then view it in cam, if you've recorded correctly then it will play back slow on the camera screen, if that same footage plays back wrong on your editing suite then obviously that's set up wrong.

Paul.

Paul Kellett · July 24th, 2008, 04:08 AM

Ha ha.
No worries mate.
You'll get it sorted and then worry what all the fuss was about.
Once you set the slo-mo frame rate to 60fps or whatever else fps, it'll stay at that until you change it .

So if i know that sometime during the shoot i'll be shooting slo-mo, and i need it in a hurry, i leave the menu set at record format so that next time i go into the menu i'll be at "change recording format", i'll quickly change that to 720/25p, then i'll switch on slo-mo and that'll already be at 60fps.
Such a scenario would be when shooting a wedding and i'm in a rush to catch the confetti being thrown so i need to change slo-mo in a hurry.

Hope this helps.

Paul.

Andy Nickless · July 24th, 2008, 04:10 AM

Thanks to all of you for your patience.

When I had a Panasonic HVX200, I could shoot at 50 fps (with sound).
If I remember rightly, it took up twice the space on the cards but it gave me the option in post of normal playback (with sound) or slow motion (with sound - for what it's worth).

Although moving to the EX1 has been one of the best decisions I ever made, I was disappointed to discover I couldn't shoot 50 fps with sound.

I overlooked the fact that the EX1 does slow motion a different way (or at least the setup is different).

So if I want slow motion, I really have to shoot slow motion.
OK - I can live with that. It's a small inconvenience for the huge leap in quality I've taken by going EX1.

George Kroonder · July 24th, 2008, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Nickless

Although moving to the EX1 has been one of the best decisions I ever made, I was disappointed to discover I couldn't shoot 50 fps with sound

The EX1 most certainly can shoot 720p50 (or 720p60) with sound. Just not with S&Q Mode enabled.

So you have the choice of using the S&Q function for slow (or quick) motion OR you can set up and record "regular" 720p50 and conform to another timebase in post.

George/

Richard Firnges · July 24th, 2008, 06:10 AM

If You need sound during recording You can also shoot in 720p 50 or 60 fps. To get a 25p slo motion clip You only have to change the frame rate of the clip. Since I am not a Mac user, I can't can give You no specific advice, but there is one workaround which will work in any case:
Render the 60 fps as single frames and reimport these as a new 25 fps clip.

Greetings Richard

July 23rd, 2008, 11:33 PM	#1
Andy Nickless Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Worcester. United Kingdom Posts: 197	SloMo from an EX1 ?? I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's managed to produce SloMo from a Sony EX1. (Using Mac in PAL land in particular). Cinema Tools doesn't want to know 720p 50 fps (I followed the manual exactly but "Conform" was grayed out in the File menu). So where should I go from here? I thought I'd cracked it with Compressor but on closer scrutiny, the best result I could get was choppy to say the least. I've also tried Shake but no luck there either. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Any help would be very welcome. __________________ I taught you all I know and still you know nothing.

July 24th, 2008, 12:58 AM	#2
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	I've shot loads of footage at 50P and it works fine for me playing back at 25fps in the FCP timeline. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

July 24th, 2008, 02:51 AM	#4
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	I've shot slo-mo, viewed it in vegas and FCP, plays fine in both. Recorded in 720/25p, frame rate at 60fps. Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

July 24th, 2008, 03:16 AM	#5
Andy Nickless Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Worcester. United Kingdom Posts: 197	Thanks Paul and Alister. Are you saying: Shoot 720p at 50 (or 60 fps) then drop the QT into a 25 (or 30) fps timeline . . . and it plays back in Slow Motion? (Mine just plays at normal speed - unless I'm having a brain failure of some sort). __________________ I taught you all I know and still you know nothing.

July 24th, 2008, 03:33 AM	#6
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	Yes. I record in 720/25p format then in slo-mo put the frame rate up to 60fps. If you record in 720/50p then jumping up to 60fps isn't much difference, whereas 25 up to 60fps is. Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

July 24th, 2008, 03:42 AM	#7
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	As Paul points out you need to make sure your in the right mode. 720/50P shoots at 720 50fps and plays back at 50fps, so if you drop it in to a 25fps timeline or 50fps timeline it plays back at normal speed. However if you shoot at HQ 720/25P and then turn on S&Q motion (camera settings page of the menu or press and hold the button on the EX3) and change the frame rate in the S&Q menu then you get slower or quicker than real time playback. You can use S&Q motion at 1080P up to 30fps. If you have shot at 720/50P then you can drop the clips into a 25P timeline and slow the clips down by 50% which should then play the clip at 25fps. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com Last edited by Alister Chapman; July 24th, 2008 at 03:44 AM. Reason: added menu info

July 24th, 2008, 03:42 AM	#8
Patrick Williams Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 52	Andy, It sounds like you want to actually shoot slow-motion with the camera, and there is an easy way to do it. Set the camera to record at 720p HQ 25 frames per second as you would for a normal recording. Then in the camera menu turn on the S&Q setting, and dial in your frame rate up to 60 frames per second. The normal playback of the video will now be slow-motion, and you can drop the clip into a 25fps timeline and it will still be slow-motion. You can't record audio using this method, and you can only overcrank to 30 frames per second if you use 1080p 25. However, most of us think that you can drop a 720p overcranked shot into a 1080p timeline and the video will still look pretty good. Just noticed that Alister had the posted the answer while I was typing. Last edited by Patrick Williams; July 24th, 2008 at 03:46 AM. Reason: post above had the answer

July 24th, 2008, 04:02 AM	#11
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	Andy. I've recorded enough slo-mo and fast-mo with my EX1 to know what i'm doing. Have a look at www.vimeo.com/paulkellett Look at my friends mma class, there's slo-mo on there, recorded in 720/25p format, in camera slo-mo switched on, frame rate at 60fps. If you've recorded slo-mo in cam, then view it in cam, if you've recorded correctly then it will play back slow on the camera screen, if that same footage plays back wrong on your editing suite then obviously that's set up wrong. Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

July 24th, 2008, 04:08 AM	#12
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	Ha ha. No worries mate. You'll get it sorted and then worry what all the fuss was about. Once you set the slo-mo frame rate to 60fps or whatever else fps, it'll stay at that until you change it . So if i know that sometime during the shoot i'll be shooting slo-mo, and i need it in a hurry, i leave the menu set at record format so that next time i go into the menu i'll be at "change recording format", i'll quickly change that to 720/25p, then i'll switch on slo-mo and that'll already be at 60fps. Such a scenario would be when shooting a wedding and i'm in a rush to catch the confetti being thrown so i need to change slo-mo in a hurry. Hope this helps. Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

July 24th, 2008, 04:10 AM	#13
Andy Nickless Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Worcester. United Kingdom Posts: 197	Thanks to all of you for your patience. When I had a Panasonic HVX200, I could shoot at 50 fps (with sound). If I remember rightly, it took up twice the space on the cards but it gave me the option in post of normal playback (with sound) or slow motion (with sound - for what it's worth). Although moving to the EX1 has been one of the best decisions I ever made, I was disappointed to discover I couldn't shoot 50 fps with sound. I overlooked the fact that the EX1 does slow motion a different way (or at least the setup is different). So if I want slow motion, I really have to shoot slow motion. OK - I can live with that. It's a small inconvenience for the huge leap in quality I've taken by going EX1. __________________ I taught you all I know and still you know nothing.

July 24th, 2008, 06:10 AM	#15
Richard Firnges Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 45	If You need sound during recording You can also shoot in 720p 50 or 60 fps. To get a 25p slo motion clip You only have to change the frame rate of the clip. Since I am not a Mac user, I can't can give You no specific advice, but there is one workaround which will work in any case: Render the 60 fps as single frames and reimport these as a new 25 fps clip. Greetings Richard