What do they mean with "shutter off" ? :) at DVinfo.net

Peter Rixner · July 18th, 2008, 04:46 PM

Hi :)

what exactly is ment when the shutter is set to off. ?

I mean, of course there is a shutter involved or we wouldn't get moving pictures ...
So ist this maybe 1/25 for 25p ? Which means in general: shutter like the framerate ?

Thanks for any idea ...

Peter

Eric Pascarelli · July 18th, 2008, 04:51 PM

Correct. Shutter off (on the EX1) means that at 25p the shutter is 1/25.

At 24p it's 1/24, etc.

Bob Grant · July 18th, 2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Pascarelli

Correct. Shutter off (on the EX1) means that at 25p the shutter is 1/25.

At 24p it's 1/24, etc.

Can someone confirm this?
I've heard this said many times and yet the slowest shutter I can get on the EX1 is 1/60 in SP shooting 50i. The manual indicates that in HQ the slowest shutter speed at 24/25p is 1/33 and yet the largest shutter angle is 180deg.

Eric Pascarelli · July 18th, 2008, 05:42 PM

The slowest settable shutters with the shutter "on" are as you stated in your post.

To get the longer shutter times (equal to the frame rate), turn the shutter off. This gives a 360° shutter (very slightly less, actually).

I have confirmed this with my own tests, long ago, for the EX1 and this is fairly common in other cameras.

Greg Boston · July 18th, 2008, 07:57 PM

What Eric said. Shutter off = no shutter = frame rate. If you are shooting 25 frames per second, you have an exposure time of 1/25 sec in shutter off mode.

-gb-

Mark OConnell · July 18th, 2008, 09:09 PM

"What Eric said. Shutter off = no shutter = frame rate. If you are shooting 25 frames per second, you have an exposure time of 1/25 sec in shutter off mode."

What's the effect of the shutter angle settings on this?

Ian Holb · July 18th, 2008, 10:18 PM

The shutter off is a complete bug. Hopefully, Sony will make shutter OFF as 1/48th in 24P mode. The problem comes when you engage the fully automatic controls, which puts the shutter at 1/24 (360 degrees) which is completely wrong when shooting in 24P mode. Why Sony did this is beyond stupid. I hope they come with a firmware fix for this glaring issue.

Greg Boston · July 18th, 2008, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Holb

The shutter off is a complete bug. Hopefully, Sony will make shutter OFF as 1/48th in 24P mode. The problem comes when you engage the fully automatic controls, which puts the shutter at 1/24 (360 degrees) which is completely wrong when shooting in 24P mode. Why Sony did this is beyond stupid. I hope they come with a firmware fix for this glaring issue.

Sorry, that's incorrect. It's not a bug. It's the way higher end cameras work. The EX borrows from it's higher end siblings of the broadcast world. Granted, it has only been the past few years that high end video cameras shot anything other than 60i/NTSC or 50i/PAL where a 1/60 or 1/50 shutter (ie no shutter... switch off) is considered the norm.

Professional video cameras have a shutter on/off switch. It works as it's supposed to. It does not work the way consumer cameras tend to work.

Once again, turning off or disabling the shutter means your exposure is equal to the frame rate, aka 360 degree shutter. It works the same way on my F350 camera.

-gb-

Bob Grant · July 19th, 2008, 04:42 AM

OK, I just had a play around with this.

a) It works as described by several people here in 1080/25p. It'd be nice if the manual managed to get the story straight.

b) In 1080/25p I can select shutter speeds of 1/33, 1/50, 1/60 and 1/100 etc. If I'm in 1/33 and switch Shutter Mode to Angle exposure jumps up as the camera changes to 180deg when it should be 270deg but that's not even an option.

To add to my confusion the Shutter On/Off switch is disabled in Full Menu mode and there's also control through the TLCS menu. I think I need to spend more time with this, the interaction of several controls and the lack of clear documentation can be bewildering in the heat of the moment.

Eric Pascarelli · July 19th, 2008, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark OConnell

"What Eric said. Shutter off = no shutter = frame rate. If you are shooting 25 frames per second, you have an exposure time of 1/25 sec in shutter off mode."

What's the effect of the shutter angle settings on this?

None. The shutter angle concept applies only when the shutter is on. Shutter off = 360° shutter.

I agree with the above posts that the shutter angle has too few options. It would be nice to have 220°, for example. But if you want extra options, such as angles greater than 180°, use the shutter time mode instead.

Wes Thomas Greene · July 22nd, 2008, 07:03 AM

soooo
what combination of shutters and shutter angles are people using
and to what effect?

just starting to get my read around the way shutter controls work in video cameras but it's still confusing

any tips??

Benjamin Eckstein · July 22nd, 2008, 07:44 AM

the norm for me, and I think most is:
1/48 shutter for 24p
and 1/60 for 30p

but I use shutter off to gain a stop of light without activating gain in certain conditions. There will be more motion blur but I find in many cases the motion blur is preferable to extra gain.

David Mullen · July 22nd, 2008, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Holb

The shutter off is a complete bug. Hopefully, Sony will make shutter OFF as 1/48th in 24P mode. The problem comes when you engage the fully automatic controls, which puts the shutter at 1/24 (360 degrees) which is completely wrong when shooting in 24P mode. Why Sony did this is beyond stupid. I hope they come with a firmware fix for this glaring issue.

That would incorrect -- shutter off means no shutter, so at 24P, that would be 1/24th.

1/48th at 24P definitely involves using a shutter, a 180 degree one in spinning mechanical film shutter angle terms. So it would make no logical sense for a camera set to shutter OFF to actually set the shutter ON. OFF is OFF, no shutter, i.e. a 360 degree shutter, 1/24th at 24P.

July 18th, 2008, 04:46 PM	#1
Peter Rixner Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: near Munich, Bavaria Posts: 139	What do they mean with "shutter off" ? :) Hi :) what exactly is ment when the shutter is set to off. ? I mean, of course there is a shutter involved or we wouldn't get moving pictures ... So ist this maybe 1/25 for 25p ? Which means in general: shutter like the framerate ? Thanks for any idea ... Peter

July 18th, 2008, 09:09 PM	#6
Mark OConnell Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 420	"What Eric said. Shutter off = no shutter = frame rate. If you are shooting 25 frames per second, you have an exposure time of 1/25 sec in shutter off mode." What's the effect of the shutter angle settings on this? __________________ http://www.markoconnell.org

July 22nd, 2008, 07:03 AM	#11
Wes Thomas Greene Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 26	sssssooooooo soooo what combination of shutters and shutter angles are people using and to what effect? just starting to get my read around the way shutter controls work in video cameras but it's still confusing any tips??

July 18th, 2008, 04:51 PM	#2
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	Correct. Shutter off (on the EX1) means that at 25p the shutter is 1/25. At 24p it's 1/24, etc.

July 18th, 2008, 05:42 PM	#4
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	The slowest settable shutters with the shutter "on" are as you stated in your post. To get the longer shutter times (equal to the frame rate), turn the shutter off. This gives a 360° shutter (very slightly less, actually). I have confirmed this with my own tests, long ago, for the EX1 and this is fairly common in other cameras.

July 18th, 2008, 07:57 PM	#5
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	What Eric said. Shutter off = no shutter = frame rate. If you are shooting 25 frames per second, you have an exposure time of 1/25 sec in shutter off mode. -gb-

July 18th, 2008, 10:18 PM	#7
Ian Holb Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 127	The shutter off is a complete bug. Hopefully, Sony will make shutter OFF as 1/48th in 24P mode. The problem comes when you engage the fully automatic controls, which puts the shutter at 1/24 (360 degrees) which is completely wrong when shooting in 24P mode. Why Sony did this is beyond stupid. I hope they come with a firmware fix for this glaring issue.

July 19th, 2008, 04:42 AM	#9
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	OK, I just had a play around with this. a) It works as described by several people here in 1080/25p. It'd be nice if the manual managed to get the story straight. b) In 1080/25p I can select shutter speeds of 1/33, 1/50, 1/60 and 1/100 etc. If I'm in 1/33 and switch Shutter Mode to Angle exposure jumps up as the camera changes to 180deg when it should be 270deg but that's not even an option. To add to my confusion the Shutter On/Off switch is disabled in Full Menu mode and there's also control through the TLCS menu. I think I need to spend more time with this, the interaction of several controls and the lack of clear documentation can be bewildering in the heat of the moment.

July 22nd, 2008, 07:44 AM	#12
Benjamin Eckstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 380 Images: 1	the norm for me, and I think most is: 1/48 shutter for 24p and 1/60 for 30p but I use shutter off to gain a stop of light without activating gain in certain conditions. There will be more motion blur but I find in many cases the motion blur is preferable to extra gain.