Rolling Shutter and Vibration

Matt Davis · July 13th, 2008, 09:13 AM

http://www.mdma.tv/ex1/cmos_vibration.html

This is from the deck of a largish boat (two deck pleasure cruiser sort of thing), with the camera on a tripod at the rear in close proximity to the diesel engines.

I wouldn't normally shoot a set up like this, but it was an opportunity to demonstrate rolling shutter effects if exposed to vibration. Neither do I think it would have worked with a CCD chip - it may have looked 'chattery' rather than 'oscillating'.

Either way, just an illustration of the dangers of vibration.

Peter Rixner · July 13th, 2008, 09:35 AM

Thanks for sharing.

I wonder if it's also part of that your shooting with 1/500th ?

Why don't You use the ND Filters to knock light down ?

Maybe it would be that bad then ? I am not shure ...

Peter

George Kroonder · July 13th, 2008, 09:49 AM

I think this could be put to good use when shooting PoV's for "over the limit" pleasureboat captains ;-)

George/

Matt Davis · July 13th, 2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Rixner

I wonder if it's also part of that your shooting with 1/500th ?

Okay, so I'm holding my hands up - I was shooting this particular set up intentionally to make things look bad, as part of my guerilla campaign to demonstrate that the perceived demons that posses the EX1 aren't as bad as everyone makes out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Rixner

Why don't You use the ND Filters to knock light down ?

I was on ND2 already. I was at f5.6 and could have stopped down more, but the sky was dull and brightening, so I reckoned on needing to go to f8. Barcelona in July is BRIGHT!

I did not have a matte box to hand. A couple of NDs on top of the 1/64 in the camera would have helped.

DIRTY SECRET:
The producer had booked the boat trip (the shoot was mostly hotel GVs and interviews - we wanted 'something else' too) and wanted something from it in the programme. The sea was quite choppy and I didn't think I could get a steady wide shot. I was shooting at a very high shutter speed as I thought the hand-held and tripod shots wouldn't work for my edit. At least with the fastest shutter I could get, I'd have a few stills I could chop together as a montage.

There. I've said it. <blush>

I'll post another couple of shots later which show skewing during fast pan shots. Don't want to spoil the surprise too much, but like the flash shots, it takes a lot to make the camera produce sick results.

Dean Sensui · July 13th, 2008, 12:57 PM

I had problems with vibration shooting with a Canon XL1s on a diesel-powered fishing boat. The result was unusable so I had to take the camera off the tripod and shoot handheld.

Dave Morrison · July 13th, 2008, 07:26 PM

That's exactly the way the world looks to me when I'm on a small boat and get seasick! ;)

Dominik Seibold · July 13th, 2008, 09:29 PM

This is a slomo-shot, isn't it?

Leonard Levy · July 13th, 2008, 11:08 PM

I liked it. Better than a chattering shot. Looks like a "feature" not a "fault"!

Seriously though, It is interesting - do you think a lower shutter speed would have made any difference?

Lenny Levy

Geoff Addis · July 14th, 2008, 02:13 AM

An interesting shot: not only the vibration from the engine, but individual movement of the two boats, each in three planes all helped to make me feel quite seasick! I have had similar problems on board a Thames motor cruiser using a Z1, but as Matt said, the image was more chatter-like. Hand holding the camera with its strap around my neck virtually solved the problem.

Geoff

Dave Morrison · July 14th, 2008, 09:32 AM

Question for Matt: Was the Image Stabilization turned on during this clip? If it was, I wonder if this was a result of the EX1 trying to stabilize the movement of the boat as well as the vibration? These two motions combined might have driven the thing crazy.

Matt Davis · July 14th, 2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Morrison

Was the Image Stabilization turned on during this clip?

Yes it was, but that wasn't the problem (all the distortion happens within each frame) and I have plenty of other scenes where Image Stabilisation saved the shot rather than made it bad. OTOH, I will check again for when OIS causes the occasional dark corner - something that the Z1 is guilty of too.

I'm hoping to get permission to use a few other shots from this sequence (i.e. shots that made it to the first round of selects rather than off-cuts) to show how it isn't all bad.

Matt Buys · July 14th, 2008, 10:27 PM

Thanks for posting. I get the same with my hv20. Only it doesn't hurt as much knowing what I could have paid to watch that effect. Seems like a spectacular camera otherwise.

July 13th, 2008, 09:13 AM	#1
Matt Davis Trustee Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 1,562	Rolling Shutter and Vibration - a demonstration http://www.mdma.tv/ex1/cmos_vibration.html This is from the deck of a largish boat (two deck pleasure cruiser sort of thing), with the camera on a tripod at the rear in close proximity to the diesel engines. I wouldn't normally shoot a set up like this, but it was an opportunity to demonstrate rolling shutter effects if exposed to vibration. Neither do I think it would have worked with a CCD chip - it may have looked 'chattery' rather than 'oscillating'. Either way, just an illustration of the dangers of vibration. __________________ Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6

July 13th, 2008, 12:57 PM	#5
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	I had problems with vibration shooting with a Canon XL1s on a diesel-powered fishing boat. The result was unusable so I had to take the camera off the tripod and shoot handheld. __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing

July 13th, 2008, 07:26 PM	#6
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	That's exactly the way the world looks to me when I'm on a small boat and get seasick! ;) __________________ EX1, Nikon D750 http://www.morrisonphotographics.com http://www.heritagefilm.com

July 14th, 2008, 09:32 AM	#10
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	Question for Matt: Was the Image Stabilization turned on during this clip? If it was, I wonder if this was a result of the EX1 trying to stabilize the movement of the boat as well as the vibration? These two motions combined might have driven the thing crazy. __________________ EX1, Nikon D750 http://www.morrisonphotographics.com http://www.heritagefilm.com

July 13th, 2008, 09:35 AM	#2
Peter Rixner Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: near Munich, Bavaria Posts: 139	Thanks for sharing. I wonder if it's also part of that your shooting with 1/500th ? Why don't You use the ND Filters to knock light down ? Maybe it would be that bad then ? I am not shure ... Peter

July 13th, 2008, 09:49 AM	#3
George Kroonder Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Utrecht, NL \| Europe 3rd Rock from the Sun Posts: 612	I think this could be put to good use when shooting PoV's for "over the limit" pleasureboat captains ;-) George/

July 13th, 2008, 09:29 PM	#7
Dominik Seibold Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Nuremberg, Germany Posts: 285	This is a slomo-shot, isn't it?

July 13th, 2008, 11:08 PM	#8
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	I liked it. Better than a chattering shot. Looks like a "feature" not a "fault"! Seriously though, It is interesting - do you think a lower shutter speed would have made any difference? Lenny Levy

July 14th, 2008, 02:13 AM	#9
Geoff Addis Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 116	An interesting shot: not only the vibration from the engine, but individual movement of the two boats, each in three planes all helped to make me feel quite seasick! I have had similar problems on board a Thames motor cruiser using a Z1, but as Matt said, the image was more chatter-like. Hand holding the camera with its strap around my neck virtually solved the problem. Geoff

July 14th, 2008, 10:27 PM	#12
Matt Buys Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 426	Thanks for posting. I get the same with my hv20. Only it doesn't hurt as much knowing what I could have paid to watch that effect. Seems like a spectacular camera otherwise.