Is this a rolling shutter issue or is my camera faulty?? at DVinfo.net

Rob Moreno · July 11th, 2008, 08:54 PM

I'm experiencing strobing artifacts in some of the footage shot with my EX1. Until now I thought it was due to the camera's rolling shutter while shooting under fluorescent lights. But yesterday it happened while shooting outdoors in the middle of the day, nowhere near any lights. Sometimes the strobing would go away after a few seconds, while at other times it would persist throughout the entire shot. The problem is not like the jellocam or partial exposure artifacts documented on various forums. It's more like a color shift that moves up and down the screen. I've posted an example here -->
http://www.mediakobo.com/watersafety.mp4
It's most noticeable when you advance the clip frame by frame.
I had the camera set to full manual during this shoot. Has anyone else experienced this?

Dave Morrison · July 11th, 2008, 09:22 PM

I hate to say this, but I think I saw this once too. It happened so briefly that I almost didn't see it and it never happened a second time. However, since my EX1 lost its' ability to focus to infinity, it's now back at Sony Service. Maybe it will screw up while THEY have it.

Leonard Levy · July 11th, 2008, 09:49 PM

Looks weird, but if you want advice you need to tell us all your settings.

Rob Moreno · July 12th, 2008, 01:59 AM

As I remember, I was shooting 1080 30P HQ, shutter at 1/60, ND filter 2, aperture around f4, everything set to full manual (zoom, white balance, focus, iris), steady shot on, built-in camera mic only...
is there anything else that would help?

Alexander Kubalsky · July 12th, 2008, 02:16 AM

Could it be caused by the water reflection?

Mick Haensler · July 12th, 2008, 07:42 AM

Looks like a florescent light issue.

Mick Haensler
Higher Ground Media

Rob Moreno · July 12th, 2008, 08:38 AM

It does look similar to fluorescent light strobing but 1) there weren't any lights whatsoever near this outdoor pool, and 2) even if there were, the bright sunlight would have drowned out their effect.
Here's a larger sample that shows the artifacts more clearly.
http://www.mediakobo.com/watersafety2.mp4
here you can see faint strobing bands of blue-ish and red-ish color.

Ray Bell · July 12th, 2008, 10:09 AM

What it looks like to me is that the water is reflecting the light onto the wall and the
camera is trying its best to auto white balance the color shifts of the water ripples
being projected into the scene..

Paul R Johnson · July 12th, 2008, 11:56 AM

It looks 100% electronic to me - I've never seen reflections cause a colour shift, and the shifts are only going one way, reflections from the water would go both. Probably worth shooting a white card and deliberately overexposing - this should prove if it is level related, and should give you more scope for experimenting before sending it back for service. Is it visible in the viewfinder during record, or only on playback?

Daniel Epstein · July 12th, 2008, 12:06 PM

Was your battery near the end of its life. Not sure about the EX1 but some cameras can act strange when the battery is weak but not causing a warning.

Dave Morrison · July 12th, 2008, 03:07 PM

Rob, I included your links to your footage in an email to the guy at Sony Service who I'm dealing with re: my focus problems. Since I saw this once (VERY briefly) with my EX1, I'll try to get an answer from him about what he thinks is causing this. I'd hate to open yet another can of worms with this camera, but if this is happening with certain EX1's, I'd like them to know about it. Might as well have them aware of it while they have my camera in the shop......again.

Rob Moreno · July 12th, 2008, 07:39 PM

Dave,
Thanks for referring this problem to Sony service. I'd really like to hear his opinion on this.
Auto White Balance was turned off but the color shifting does look like it could be related to AWB somehow. Battery life was at 80%. I saw the strobing in the LCD every time it happened during the shoot.

Dave Morrison · July 12th, 2008, 08:38 PM

I don't think it's a AWB issue as the whole screen would probably "pulse" with the color changes if it was jumping between two different color balances. I'll pass along anything I get from them....if anything.

Steven Thomas · July 13th, 2008, 09:22 AM

Never seen this.

One quick solution is to bring back the EX1 to that location and try it again.

If you're not seeing it anywhere else, there's something unique to the lighting in that area.

Rob Moreno · July 13th, 2008, 07:24 PM

I was able to recreate the issue in my office this morning. It seems to be triggered by a combination of bright light and white balancing, although I can not confirm this without further testing. Changing the shutter speed from 60 to a higher setting, such as 250 or 500, and then returning to 60 nearly eliminates the effect, but the problem returns after switching the camera off and on. Changing the Flicker Reduce setting from "on" to "auto" seems to have minimized the issue. Maybe that's what was causing the effect?
Here's another sample I took in my office.
http://www.mediakobo.com/blinds.mp4
The room lights were all turned off. Only natural light is entering the camera.

July 11th, 2008, 08:54 PM	#1
Rob Moreno Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Tokyo Posts: 102	Is this a rolling shutter issue or is my camera faulty?? I'm experiencing strobing artifacts in some of the footage shot with my EX1. Until now I thought it was due to the camera's rolling shutter while shooting under fluorescent lights. But yesterday it happened while shooting outdoors in the middle of the day, nowhere near any lights. Sometimes the strobing would go away after a few seconds, while at other times it would persist throughout the entire shot. The problem is not like the jellocam or partial exposure artifacts documented on various forums. It's more like a color shift that moves up and down the screen. I've posted an example here --> http://www.mediakobo.com/watersafety.mp4 It's most noticeable when you advance the clip frame by frame. I had the camera set to full manual during this shoot. Has anyone else experienced this? __________________ Media Kobo Japan

July 11th, 2008, 09:22 PM	#2
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	I hate to say this, but I think I saw this once too. It happened so briefly that I almost didn't see it and it never happened a second time. However, since my EX1 lost its' ability to focus to infinity, it's now back at Sony Service. Maybe it will screw up while THEY have it. __________________ EX1, Nikon D750 http://www.morrisonphotographics.com http://www.heritagefilm.com

July 12th, 2008, 01:59 AM	#4
Rob Moreno Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Tokyo Posts: 102	As I remember, I was shooting 1080 30P HQ, shutter at 1/60, ND filter 2, aperture around f4, everything set to full manual (zoom, white balance, focus, iris), steady shot on, built-in camera mic only... is there anything else that would help? __________________ Media Kobo Japan

July 12th, 2008, 08:38 AM	#7
Rob Moreno Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Tokyo Posts: 102	It does look similar to fluorescent light strobing but 1) there weren't any lights whatsoever near this outdoor pool, and 2) even if there were, the bright sunlight would have drowned out their effect. Here's a larger sample that shows the artifacts more clearly. http://www.mediakobo.com/watersafety2.mp4 here you can see faint strobing bands of blue-ish and red-ish color. __________________ Media Kobo Japan

July 12th, 2008, 03:07 PM	#11
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	Rob, I included your links to your footage in an email to the guy at Sony Service who I'm dealing with re: my focus problems. Since I saw this once (VERY briefly) with my EX1, I'll try to get an answer from him about what he thinks is causing this. I'd hate to open yet another can of worms with this camera, but if this is happening with certain EX1's, I'd like them to know about it. Might as well have them aware of it while they have my camera in the shop......again. __________________ EX1, Nikon D750 http://www.morrisonphotographics.com http://www.heritagefilm.com

July 11th, 2008, 09:49 PM	#3
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Looks weird, but if you want advice you need to tell us all your settings.

July 12th, 2008, 02:16 AM	#5
Alexander Kubalsky Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Japan Posts: 172	Could it be caused by the water reflection?

July 12th, 2008, 07:42 AM	#6
Mick Haensler Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Salisbury, MD Posts: 122	Looks like a florescent light issue. Mick Haensler Higher Ground Media

July 12th, 2008, 10:09 AM	#8
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	What it looks like to me is that the water is reflecting the light onto the wall and the camera is trying its best to auto white balance the color shifts of the water ripples being projected into the scene..

July 12th, 2008, 11:56 AM	#9
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	It looks 100% electronic to me - I've never seen reflections cause a colour shift, and the shifts are only going one way, reflections from the water would go both. Probably worth shooting a white card and deliberately overexposing - this should prove if it is level related, and should give you more scope for experimenting before sending it back for service. Is it visible in the viewfinder during record, or only on playback?

July 12th, 2008, 12:06 PM	#10
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Was your battery near the end of its life. Not sure about the EX1 but some cameras can act strange when the battery is weak but not causing a warning.

July 12th, 2008, 07:39 PM	#12
Rob Moreno Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Tokyo Posts: 102	Dave, Thanks for referring this problem to Sony service. I'd really like to hear his opinion on this. Auto White Balance was turned off but the color shifting does look like it could be related to AWB somehow. Battery life was at 80%. I saw the strobing in the LCD every time it happened during the shoot. __________________ Media Kobo Japan

July 12th, 2008, 08:38 PM	#13
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	I don't think it's a AWB issue as the whole screen would probably "pulse" with the color changes if it was jumping between two different color balances. I'll pass along anything I get from them....if anything. __________________ EX1, Nikon D750 http://www.morrisonphotographics.com http://www.heritagefilm.com

July 13th, 2008, 09:22 AM	#14
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Never seen this. One quick solution is to bring back the EX1 to that location and try it again. If you're not seeing it anywhere else, there's something unique to the lighting in that area.

July 13th, 2008, 07:24 PM	#15
Rob Moreno Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Tokyo Posts: 102	I was able to recreate the issue in my office this morning. It seems to be triggered by a combination of bright light and white balancing, although I can not confirm this without further testing. Changing the shutter speed from 60 to a higher setting, such as 250 or 500, and then returning to 60 nearly eliminates the effect, but the problem returns after switching the camera off and on. Changing the Flicker Reduce setting from "on" to "auto" seems to have minimized the issue. Maybe that's what was causing the effect? Here's another sample I took in my office. http://www.mediakobo.com/blinds.mp4 The room lights were all turned off. Only natural light is entering the camera. __________________ Media Kobo Japan