EX1 60p footage in a 24 frame timeline FCP... Help at DVinfo.net

Michael Calla · June 19th, 2008, 06:37 PM

In the past, with my HVX, i would take 60p footage in to cinema tools and conform it to 24p, and voila, in camera slo mo. with the MP4 files of the EX1, it seems like i need to do something else.

Help?

Craig Seeman · June 19th, 2008, 08:30 PM

If you shoot 24, 30, 25 over 60 (overcrank) you'd just drop that into the appropriate timeline. If you shot 720p60 (not overcrank) then you can convert it to non GOP codec (Apple Pro Res for example) and then Cinema Tools should handle it like the HVX.

Michael Calla · June 20th, 2008, 09:22 AM

so i needed to set the EX1 to something other than 720P60 to overcrank it?

Craig Seeman · June 20th, 2008, 09:58 AM

Overcrank in the EX1 is pretty much the same as the HVX. The codec is certainly different though.

You set both the time base and overcrank speed in the camera. As I alluded to above, that would typically be 720p24, 720p30, 720p25 (PAL countries). Then you set the frame rate to 60. You then drop that in your 720p24, 720p30, 720p25 timeline (depending on your time base). You'd do this with both the EX1 or the HVX. That's how overcrank works.

For the EX1, this is NOT the same as shooting 720p60 and I'd advise NOT doing it that way because you'd get a lower bit rate per second 720p24/60 is about 87.5mbps whereas 720p60 is 35mbps. The data rate may be impacted too on the HVX but I'm not certain. Certainly on the HVX you can tell the data rate changes when changing settings which is why record time on the HVX P2 cards is longer for 720p24N compared to 1080p30 for example.

Michael Calla · June 20th, 2008, 10:09 AM

ah ok. thanks a ton!

Craig Seeman · June 20th, 2008, 11:01 AM

You're welcome.

So much is NOT clear from the Sony manuals. While there's now 3 training DVDs for the EX1 (I only have Vortex) I can't help but think there's missing pieces to "the picture." It's not only what the buttons/settings do by WHY.

Rich Dykmans · June 20th, 2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

If you shoot 24, 30, 25 over 60 (overcrank) you'd just drop that into the appropriate timeline. If you shot 720p60 (not overcrank) then you can convert it to non GOP codec (Apple Pro Res for example) and then Cinema Tools should handle it like the HVX.

Can you explain what you're talking about in your second sentence, are you talking about just conforming material shot at 720p60 to a 24p or 30p timeline using cinema tools? Will that give you the over crank effect as well? for some reason I didn't think it would work that way. thanks!

Rich Dykmans · June 20th, 2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

For the EX1, this is NOT the same as shooting 720p60 and I'd advise NOT doing it that way because you'd get a lower bit rate per second 720p24/60 is about 87.5mbps whereas 720p60 is 35mbps. The data rate may be impacted too on the HVX but I'm not certain. Certainly on the HVX you can tell the data rate changes when changing settings which is why record time on the HVX P2 cards is longer for 720p24N compared to 1080p30 for example.

So over cranking while shooting 720p24 or 30 forces the codec to generate more I frames and effectively pushes the data rate over 35? (and I'm assuming available recording time / card space drops just like in the HVX-darn there is no free lunch here).

That should provide a noticeable quality increase over 720p60 if I'm understanding this correctly?

Michael Calla · June 20th, 2008, 04:52 PM

i can see in the menu where you change the format to 720P24, but where do you change the frame rate to 60? thanks in advance...

Craig Seeman · June 20th, 2008, 09:23 PM

Look for the Q&S (or is it S&Q) menu setting. Slow and Quick Motion as Sony calls it. It's in a different menu than the one that selects the timebase. That makes it a minor pane to go back and forth through the menus to set this up. It's also why so many find that they put this on an external button on the EX3 a neat convenience.

Michael Palmer · June 23rd, 2008, 10:08 PM

I can't wait for the EX3 for this and a few other reasons. As Craig has said the 24 or 30 time base together with the over crank up to 60 frames will slow down the motion and in my experience you will carry this slow motion right through the rewrap XD Cam Transfer process right into the FC (in my situation) right to the timeline of 24 or 30 which ever you are working with.

Barry J. Anwender · June 24th, 2008, 08:51 AM

Just to some precision the understanding of "S&Q Motion Dial", as well as manage expectations. From the EX3 manual, "the setting range varies depending on the current video format."

With a 1080 format: 1 to 30 fps
With a 720 format: 1 to 60 fps

I too am looking forward to the EX3 S&Q Motion Dial.

June 19th, 2008, 06:37 PM	#1
Michael Calla Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: salt lake city utah Posts: 53	EX1 60p footage in a 24 frame timeline FCP... Help In the past, with my HVX, i would take 60p footage in to cinema tools and conform it to 24p, and voila, in camera slo mo. with the MP4 files of the EX1, it seems like i need to do something else. Help?

June 19th, 2008, 08:30 PM	#2
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	If you shoot 24, 30, 25 over 60 (overcrank) you'd just drop that into the appropriate timeline. If you shot 720p60 (not overcrank) then you can convert it to non GOP codec (Apple Pro Res for example) and then Cinema Tools should handle it like the HVX.

June 20th, 2008, 09:22 AM	#3
Michael Calla Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: salt lake city utah Posts: 53	so i needed to set the EX1 to something other than 720P60 to overcrank it?

June 20th, 2008, 09:58 AM	#4
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Overcrank in the EX1 is pretty much the same as the HVX. The codec is certainly different though. You set both the time base and overcrank speed in the camera. As I alluded to above, that would typically be 720p24, 720p30, 720p25 (PAL countries). Then you set the frame rate to 60. You then drop that in your 720p24, 720p30, 720p25 timeline (depending on your time base). You'd do this with both the EX1 or the HVX. That's how overcrank works. For the EX1, this is NOT the same as shooting 720p60 and I'd advise NOT doing it that way because you'd get a lower bit rate per second 720p24/60 is about 87.5mbps whereas 720p60 is 35mbps. The data rate may be impacted too on the HVX but I'm not certain. Certainly on the HVX you can tell the data rate changes when changing settings which is why record time on the HVX P2 cards is longer for 720p24N compared to 1080p30 for example.

June 20th, 2008, 10:09 AM	#5
Michael Calla Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: salt lake city utah Posts: 53	ah ok. thanks a ton!

June 20th, 2008, 11:01 AM	#6
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	You're welcome. So much is NOT clear from the Sony manuals. While there's now 3 training DVDs for the EX1 (I only have Vortex) I can't help but think there's missing pieces to "the picture." It's not only what the buttons/settings do by WHY.

June 20th, 2008, 04:52 PM	#9
Michael Calla Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: salt lake city utah Posts: 53	i can see in the menu where you change the format to 720P24, but where do you change the frame rate to 60? thanks in advance...

June 20th, 2008, 09:23 PM	#10
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Look for the Q&S (or is it S&Q) menu setting. Slow and Quick Motion as Sony calls it. It's in a different menu than the one that selects the timebase. That makes it a minor pane to go back and forth through the menus to set this up. It's also why so many find that they put this on an external button on the EX3 a neat convenience.

June 23rd, 2008, 10:08 PM	#11
Michael Palmer Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Lakewood, Ca Posts: 65	I can't wait for the EX3 for this and a few other reasons. As Craig has said the 24 or 30 time base together with the over crank up to 60 frames will slow down the motion and in my experience you will carry this slow motion right through the rewrap XD Cam Transfer process right into the FC (in my situation) right to the timeline of 24 or 30 which ever you are working with.

June 24th, 2008, 08:51 AM	#12
Barry J. Anwender Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 382	Just to some precision the understanding of "S&Q Motion Dial", as well as manage expectations. From the EX3 manual, "the setting range varies depending on the current video format." With a 1080 format: 1 to 30 fps With a 720 format: 1 to 60 fps I too am looking forward to the EX3 S&Q Motion Dial.