EX1 for sport shooting at DVinfo.net

Rich Dykmans · June 19th, 2008, 04:21 PM

I was going to purchase an HPX170 when they become available this fall but the more I read about the EX1's features and see footage from it the more I'm thinking about getting it instead. I shoot a lot of 720p60 & 720p24 with over crank and had an HVX the last time I did that kind of work so I'm familiar with it's strengths. I'm just wondering how the footage will hold up for example when shot from a moving chase boat handheld with the BG going by and a wakeboarder moving towards and away from the cam. I'm expecting BG blur but I'm worried the rider part of the image may get funky as well.

The skateboarding examples I've seen look fine vs the HVX but I don't think those were handheld and certainly not from a boat. It's been my experience that given enough boat movement even an HVX becomes scrambled but I'm getting the sense that the EX1 does it a little sooner/differently and when it does break it's bad. I just can't seem to find any footage that's similar to what I want to do with it that I can watch and say OK it will work for me. Part of the problem is the new HPX is not available and I need to start shooting in Sept. I have shot what I described above in HDV and had reasonably OK results except for the obvious hdv motion artifacts and lousy slomo.

I'm hoping someone can point to some examples or give me their take on the above.

Dominik Seibold · June 19th, 2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Dykmans

It's been my experience that given enough boat movement even an HVX becomes scrambled

That's not possible because the HVX uses an I-frame-only-format and each frame gets the same amount of memory, so fast scenes should look even better than steady ones, because of the motion-blur there's less detail to reconstruct.
But perhaps this 11.25°-shutter-ex1-example helps:
http://www.dominik.ws/water.mov
(format is AppleProRes)

Rich Dykmans · June 19th, 2008, 08:43 PM

Thanks for the reply but I'm not sure that's a good comparison for what I'm worried about. In that shot the codec only has to deal with movement in a small part of the frame. What I'm talking about is handholding a camera in a moving boat, tracking a moving rider with the BG going by at 25+ MPH. The BG blur is of no consequence however unless it really breaks up. there is some airshow footage shot from a plane posted somehere that I keep hearing about.

Dominik Seibold · June 19th, 2008, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Dykmans

In that shot the codec only has to deal with movement in a small part of the frame.

Please watch the WHOLE clip, because I'm zooming to the bubbles. ;)
(right-click on the link and select "save as...")

Jon Carlson · June 19th, 2008, 09:07 PM

I don't have a link handy, but Sony has a .wmv file
of an EX1 mounted in a stunt plane. The pilot
pulls 10Gs and the camera looks great. It's 1080i so you won't see the progressive-specific issues but you can see that the 35mbps codec holds up fine with high motion.

Look on Sony's XDCAM site.

John Parker · June 19th, 2008, 09:23 PM

If you care to see some of the footage I shot from the air, here's a link to that.
www.principalphoto.com/mxs

Buck Forester · June 19th, 2008, 10:27 PM

Whoa, John, that is some STUNNING aerial footage! Once the plane was in flight, I was blown away! I'm sitting there watching it and enjoying the background beauty too and wondering where it was shot, and then I thought, hey that looks familiar and I then noticed Cascade Lake in the background, and then Emerald Bay. Looks like you had a perfect day above Lake Tahoe!

Question... how did you keep the footage so still in the air? It's rock solid. Congrats on some fantastic scenes!

Rich Dykmans · June 19th, 2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominik Seibold

Please watch the WHOLE clip, because I'm zooming to the bubbles. ;)

Busted! thanks that was helpful once I watched it all!

John: Great stuff! Was that Donner lake in one of those shots?

I haven't heard one person who owns the EX complain about it, that's usually a good sign.

John Parker · June 19th, 2008, 10:41 PM

Hi Buck,

We did have a very blissful day actually. I was really nervous on this shoot as there was a lot of vibration from the fuselage to worry about. Honestly, all I did was rest a tripod on top of foam rubber, and I was stunned with the result. No gyros at all, and a true testament to the IS function on the EX1.

I see we're darn near neighbors. I have an office in Carmichael. Did you like the the timing on the boat in Emerald Bay? I forget the name of the paddlewheeler there, but it was really ideal timing as we flew over Emerald Bay to have that icon in there. I often wonder what it must have looked like to the people on that boat that day as we were doing our shoot.

John Parker · June 19th, 2008, 10:47 PM

Hi Rich,

Thanks. I have also shot some wakeboarding with this camera, and I was pretty surprised with the quality from the EX1. I shot most of the wakebording in 720p24/60 and I also shot a lot in 720p60. The footage in each format was quite surprising. Backgound blurr yes, but no noticable rolling shutter issue, and the border was sharp as a tack. What I would like to do is shoot some wakebording from a helicopter!

Rich Dykmans · June 19th, 2008, 11:04 PM

Thanks John, that's was what I waiting to hear. WBing shot from a heli or a tube really does give a great perspective of the sport. A friend of mine got some great footage with an HVX mounted on a crane strapped to the bow of the chase boat, not a heli but the next best thing. Anyhow I doubt I'll get that ambitious with this next project.

Buck Forester · June 19th, 2008, 11:09 PM

Yes, I'm in Lincoln right now but I lived in Carmichael about 5 years ago. I saw your location says Bend, OR so I wasn't expecting to see Lake Tahoe... pleasant surprise!

I would've bet you used a gyro on that footage... seriously, that is suh-weet and smooth!

I will be doing a lot of kayaking with my EX1... what do you use to protect your camera while wake boarding?

June 19th, 2008, 04:21 PM	#1
Rich Dykmans Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Discovery Bay, CA Posts: 138	EX1 for sport shooting I was going to purchase an HPX170 when they become available this fall but the more I read about the EX1's features and see footage from it the more I'm thinking about getting it instead. I shoot a lot of 720p60 & 720p24 with over crank and had an HVX the last time I did that kind of work so I'm familiar with it's strengths. I'm just wondering how the footage will hold up for example when shot from a moving chase boat handheld with the BG going by and a wakeboarder moving towards and away from the cam. I'm expecting BG blur but I'm worried the rider part of the image may get funky as well. The skateboarding examples I've seen look fine vs the HVX but I don't think those were handheld and certainly not from a boat. It's been my experience that given enough boat movement even an HVX becomes scrambled but I'm getting the sense that the EX1 does it a little sooner/differently and when it does break it's bad. I just can't seem to find any footage that's similar to what I want to do with it that I can watch and say OK it will work for me. Part of the problem is the new HPX is not available and I need to start shooting in Sept. I have shot what I described above in HDV and had reasonably OK results except for the obvious hdv motion artifacts and lousy slomo. I'm hoping someone can point to some examples or give me their take on the above.

June 19th, 2008, 08:43 PM	#3
Rich Dykmans Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Discovery Bay, CA Posts: 138	Thanks for the reply but I'm not sure that's a good comparison for what I'm worried about. In that shot the codec only has to deal with movement in a small part of the frame. What I'm talking about is handholding a camera in a moving boat, tracking a moving rider with the BG going by at 25+ MPH. The BG blur is of no consequence however unless it really breaks up. there is some airshow footage shot from a plane posted somehere that I keep hearing about.

June 19th, 2008, 09:07 PM	#5
Jon Carlson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Reading, PA USA Posts: 61	I don't have a link handy, but Sony has a .wmv file of an EX1 mounted in a stunt plane. The pilot pulls 10Gs and the camera looks great. It's 1080i so you won't see the progressive-specific issues but you can see that the 35mbps codec holds up fine with high motion. Look on Sony's XDCAM site.

June 19th, 2008, 09:23 PM	#6
John Parker New Boot Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 12	If you care to see some of the footage I shot from the air, here's a link to that. www.principalphoto.com/mxs

June 19th, 2008, 10:27 PM	#7
Buck Forester Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: California Posts: 230	Whoa, John, that is some STUNNING aerial footage! Once the plane was in flight, I was blown away! I'm sitting there watching it and enjoying the background beauty too and wondering where it was shot, and then I thought, hey that looks familiar and I then noticed Cascade Lake in the background, and then Emerald Bay. Looks like you had a perfect day above Lake Tahoe! Question... how did you keep the footage so still in the air? It's rock solid. Congrats on some fantastic scenes!

June 19th, 2008, 10:41 PM	#9
John Parker New Boot Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 12	Hi Buck, We did have a very blissful day actually. I was really nervous on this shoot as there was a lot of vibration from the fuselage to worry about. Honestly, all I did was rest a tripod on top of foam rubber, and I was stunned with the result. No gyros at all, and a true testament to the IS function on the EX1. I see we're darn near neighbors. I have an office in Carmichael. Did you like the the timing on the boat in Emerald Bay? I forget the name of the paddlewheeler there, but it was really ideal timing as we flew over Emerald Bay to have that icon in there. I often wonder what it must have looked like to the people on that boat that day as we were doing our shoot.

June 19th, 2008, 10:47 PM	#10
John Parker New Boot Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 12	Hi Rich, Thanks. I have also shot some wakeboarding with this camera, and I was pretty surprised with the quality from the EX1. I shot most of the wakebording in 720p24/60 and I also shot a lot in 720p60. The footage in each format was quite surprising. Backgound blurr yes, but no noticable rolling shutter issue, and the border was sharp as a tack. What I would like to do is shoot some wakebording from a helicopter!

June 19th, 2008, 11:04 PM	#11
Rich Dykmans Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Discovery Bay, CA Posts: 138	Thanks John, that's was what I waiting to hear. WBing shot from a heli or a tube really does give a great perspective of the sport. A friend of mine got some great footage with an HVX mounted on a crane strapped to the bow of the chase boat, not a heli but the next best thing. Anyhow I doubt I'll get that ambitious with this next project.

June 19th, 2008, 11:09 PM	#12
Buck Forester Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: California Posts: 230	Yes, I'm in Lincoln right now but I lived in Carmichael about 5 years ago. I saw your location says Bend, OR so I wasn't expecting to see Lake Tahoe... pleasant surprise! I would've bet you used a gyro on that footage... seriously, that is suh-weet and smooth! I will be doing a lot of kayaking with my EX1... what do you use to protect your camera while wake boarding?