What about "real" Rolling Shutter problems ?

[Sebastien Thomas]

As I said, this is things you can get with the rolling shutter effect when the camera is having a really fast shake.
This is 3 consecutive frames.

This will only happen in special circumstances, but you need to know :)

[Peter Rixner]

Sorry Matt, that wasn't ment to belittle yout hero. In fact, when we are getting so much into art and words are so finely judged it may also be my poor english you should take into account.

Anyway ... I still think my clients wouldn't judge it as art, when I present a distorted wheel. But that might change if CMOS stays that way. ... sorry don't take me too serious :)

The pictures of Sebastien show me, that this it just impossible to use for me at the moment. I have a upcoming Helicopter shot and now I will 100% not do it on a CMOS Camera.

I have a really good offer for renting a EX1. Maybe I still try it to see myself.

Thanks again for this and for the next posts ...

Peter

[Tim Polster]

Originally Posted by Matt Daviss

and that switching the shutter off doesn't turn the picture to mush

Matt,

Just to clarify, when you turn the shutter off, the camera reacts in a more favorable way towards flash/strobe situations?

With my DV cameras, I don't turn the shutter on unless I want higher speed shutter.

Do the CMOS cameras react differently without a shutter than CCD?

Thanks

[Serena Steuart]

Originally Posted by Matt Daviss

Anyway... what I actually wanted to post was this:

http://www.masters-of-fine-art-photo...rtigue_01.html

A famous shot quite simply made brilliant by an almost century old Rolling Shutter!

Of course known in the world of still photography as a focal plane shutter, and everyone using an SLR has been using focal plane shutters. On the elliptical wheel: it looks curious, but in motion looks fine. Nobody seems to get upset that wheels generally appear to rotate the wrong way (phasing between frame rate/shutter and wheel spokes) and animators always distort wheels of speeding cars in exactly this way.
In this thread we're in a debate between those with theoretical objections against those with practical experience. TEST!

[Jack Zhang]

Here's a thread showing how simulating a earthquake at high shutter speeds induces a LOT of skew:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=109548

[Matt Davis]

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

Just to clarify, when you turn the shutter off, the camera reacts in a more favorable way towards flash/strobe situations?s

In my experience so far, switching the shutter off seems to expose the whole frame with a flash in it, or so near as dammit that it's not a problem. It's at the expense of a lot of motion blur, but with careful tracking of the subject it's fine (except when tracking a subject that is moving a lot, so not exactly good for sports/action - hence 'mush'). So for most of the time, I'd be shooting with a shutter at 1/50 (as I use 25p), but in dark environments, no shutter, more sensitivity, flashed frames full. Perfick.

BTW...

Originally Posted by Peter Rixner

Sorry Matt, that wasn't ment to belittle yout hero.

No, my apologies to you - rather OTT reaction which in its self should have had a smiley attached - <blush> lateness of hour, stressing at having to ingest tape again (remember tape? And amateur footage with TC breaks too <sigh>).

[Paul Kellett]

Here's some skew footage i shot today.
Bit of panning, bit of shaking the crap out of my EX1.
50i,25p and 50p.


http://www.vimeo.com/982246

Paul.

[Bill Ravens]

Charles...

not to worry. every thing's fine.

[Charles Papert]

oops, too late.

[Tim Polster]

Thanks Matt.

Do you know what the shutter speed is with "shutter off"

DV CCD cameras seem to default to 1/60th when the shutter is off.

[Peter Rixner]

Paul, where is that footage ?

The link leads me to a video called "MMA training"

Thanks!

Peter

[Paul Kellett]

sorry, wrong link


http://www.vimeo.com/1186754

paul.

[Matt Davis]

Originally Posted by Paul Kellett

sorry, wrong link

And a private video... perhaps make it into a 'password only' video?

[Paul Kellett]

Oh crap, sorry,video now public.
Sorry.
Paul.

[Geoff Addis]

Paul,

Interesting footage, but I would suggest that even your slow pan is faster than the normally accepted 7 seconds for an object to pass from one side of the screen to the other; although I consider this to be a bit on the slow side. If you had been following someone walking, they would have to be going very fast to cross the field of view in the time that you had panned! If you had been following someone running with that speed of pan, I think that the blured background would have added to the sense of speed and that the subject would have been a lot clearer.

My (limited) experience so far wth the EX1 is that panning to follow normal speed of movement in real world situations is perfectly acceptable. Perhaps I'll have to change my mind!

Geoff