Getting "film look" with EX1

Serena Steuart · May 14th, 2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Stevens

Serena: My problem is not so much technical as my poor eyes and the very bright desert. As i said over at the "High Light" post I have not found a hooded setup that allows me to use the LCD and the viewfinder is poor so I'm having problems just seeing the Zebras so i think I'm being over cautious. Last Spring when it was not so bright I had no problem but now I'm blinded by the light.

Perhaps the answer is to add an eyepiece to your hood (copying the EX3 approach). If I knew how to link in a photo of mine, I would. Maybe this? http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=961
and this
http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=962&c=2

The eyepiece is made from two +3.5 diopter spectacle lenses (making 7 diopter). Flips up for direct viewing of screen. Made of 6mm foam core, so very light, if not convenient enough (doesn't fold) for normal use -- just a proof of concept.

Alexander Kubalsky · May 14th, 2008, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serena Steuart

Perhaps the answer is to add an eyepiece to your hood (copying the EX3 approach). If I knew how to link in a photo of mine, I would. Maybe this? http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=961

im building one of those at the moment. The Tupperware Update!

Mike Stevens · May 14th, 2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Kubalsky

im building one of those at the moment. The Tupperware Update!

Alex, I did in fact build one of these but with no lens but made for both eyes. It was too heavy and strained the LCD hinge. Can you disclose what you are doing?

Mike

Mike Stevens · May 14th, 2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serena Steuart

Perhaps the answer is to add an eyepiece to your hood (copying the EX3 approach). If I knew how to link in a photo of mine, I would. Maybe this? http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=961
http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=962&c=2

The eyepiece is made from two +3.5 diopter spectacle lenses (making 7 diopter). Flips up for direct viewing of screen. Made of 6mm foam core, so very light, if not convenient enough (doesn't fold) for normal use -- just a proof of concept.

You mean like this/ Made since my last post. It has a graduated vari-focal lens in eye-piece.

Mike

Serena Steuart · May 14th, 2008, 09:25 PM

Mike, yes, that's the way. Actually you shouldn't need a graduated vari-focal, but I guess you had that on hand; single focal length is what you need. I bought a pair of generic "reading glasses" and took the lenses out of the frames. $4 at the bargain shop.

Mike Stevens · May 14th, 2008, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serena Steuart

Mike, yes, that's the way. Actually you shouldn't need a graduated vari-focal, but I guess you had that on hand; single focal length is what you need. I bought a pair of generic "reading glasses" and took the lenses out of the frames. $4 at the bargain shop.

Serena: You got screwed. 99 cents here for reading glasses in the 99centsonly store!

The vari-focal is there because I'm in the process of surgery on both eyes and they are always changing and I have no prescription lenses at the mo., and as you say, it was on hand.

Another feature of the one I made and shown is that the tube telescopes, so I can use it to focus.

Mike

Serena Steuart · May 14th, 2008, 11:17 PM

The focusing feature is a good idea and I'll add that when I get to prototype stage (fixed is fine for a single user).

Moving back to "film look", I've just noticed that my American Cinematographer Manual says in relation to telecine: "film look refers to the appearance of a print as seen in direct projection......the subjective appearance of the image with its smoothly graduated highlight and shadow contrast".
But, as we've seen, it means many things to many people.

Piotr Wozniacki · May 15th, 2008, 02:59 AM

I admire your DIY viewfinders, but have been thinking of another approach (the EX3 being a bit too expensive for me to upgrade any time soon).

Can anyone in touch with Sony service ask whether it's viable to replace the poor EVF with that of the Z7 camera? I always wondered why Sony put the Xtrafine EVF on the Z7 but not on the EX1, and - after EX3 announcement - concluded they did it on purpose, to make the EX3 even more attractive...

So, if someone has an opportunity to ask about it (and costs involved), please do so and share it with the rest of us. Ideally, if it proves to be just a swap operation, buying the Z7's Xtrafine unit and mounting it ourselves would be great...

Serena Steuart · May 15th, 2008, 06:29 AM

You might have noticed that the X3 doesn't have an EVF. Just the LCD. That is a far superior approach.

Piotr Wozniacki · May 15th, 2008, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serena Steuart

You might have noticed that the X3 doesn't have an EVF. Just the LCD. That is a far superior approach.

Yes Serena, exactly - but since I have an EX1 and NOT an EX3, I am talking about a good, IMHO, way to get both: a great LCD, and a usable EVF. The latter from the Z7, if I am still unclear:)

Benjamin Eckstein · May 15th, 2008, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Can anyone in touch with Sony service ask whether it's viable to replace the poor EVF with that of the Z7 camera? I always wondered why Sony put the Xtrafine EVF on the Z7 but not on the EX1, and - after EX3 announcement - concluded they did it on purpose, to make the EX3 even more attractive...

So, if someone has an opportunity to ask about it (and costs involved), please do so and share it with the rest of us. Ideally, if it proves to be just a swap operation, buying the Z7's Xtrafine unit and mounting it ourselves would be great...

My guess is that Sony would not want to start treating their EX-1s as lego-type designs, switching parts out with their other models. They create a better model and want to sell it to us, rather than upgrade our existing model to more closely resemble their pricier one. But, hey, if someone gets Sony to do that then that is great news.

Mike Stevens · May 15th, 2008, 11:41 AM

Would it not be better to see if you can get the LCD hood for the EX3 and put it on the EX1? I wonder how much a replacement hood would be and if it is detachable or hinged permanently to the EX3 LCD.

For me, my telescoping unit cost only the lens from a discarded pair of specs and a cardboard box. I had to steal the eye cup from the viewfinder when I realized I did not have a spare. Funny, the Z1 had two eye cups and I only just now noticed the EX1 only has one.

Serena Steuart · May 15th, 2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Yes Serena, exactly - but since I have an EX1 and NOT an EX3, I am talking about a good, IMHO, way to get both: a great LCD, and a usable EVF. The latter from the Z7, if I am still unclear:)

So the question is: why do you want both? Everyone agrees that the EVF isn't great -- useful but not up to the standard of the camera. The LCD on the EX1 is the same as on the EX3 and the obvious thing is to copy the EX3 approach. The problem, as Mike mentioned, is that the EX3 has a much more robust mounting for its LCD, so one has to be careful in translating the EX3 system to the EX1. However our simple "proof of principle" tests have shown it is possible and so effective that I have switched off the EVF. Now for some work on developing a very light-weight yet robust prototype hood. Maybe the EX3 hood is the best answer; but it will be expensive and may be too heavy.

One can wish for many things in a camera, and generally the more you pay the more of them you get. A camera is a tool, like a hammer or a saw, and you can use it to make beautiful things, as does Phil Bloom with his EX1, or you can sit around asking why your hammer doesn't incorporate a saw.

Piotr Wozniacki · May 16th, 2008, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serena Steuart

So the question is: why do you want both?

The answer is simple: the great EX3 wievfinder works best when the camera is shoulder monunted, i.e. with the EX1 body shape.

For shooting EX1 handheld, or on additional mount like the "El Cheapo", its original EVF would be better for me, should it have enough resolution.

James Carl · May 16th, 2008, 12:42 AM

EVF on EX1 vs Z7? What is the actual difference?

From reading all the posts on "film look", I think that there is a wide range of subjective qualities but I think the point can be summed up as, "not video look". I agree that seeing the Show Scan 60p film projection demos, proved to me that for artsy stuff, I don't want film to look like reality. But for sports and reality shows, 60fps is the way to go, baby.

May 15th, 2008, 02:59 AM	#53
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	I admire your DIY viewfinders, but have been thinking of another approach (the EX3 being a bit too expensive for me to upgrade any time soon). Can anyone in touch with Sony service ask whether it's viable to replace the poor EVF with that of the Z7 camera? I always wondered why Sony put the Xtrafine EVF on the Z7 but not on the EX1, and - after EX3 announcement - concluded they did it on purpose, to make the EX3 even more attractive... So, if someone has an opportunity to ask about it (and costs involved), please do so and share it with the rest of us. Ideally, if it proves to be just a swap operation, buying the Z7's Xtrafine unit and mounting it ourselves would be great... __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

May 14th, 2008, 09:25 PM	#50
Serena Steuart Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Studio Alnitak, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Posts: 640 Images: 3	Mike, yes, that's the way. Actually you shouldn't need a graduated vari-focal, but I guess you had that on hand; single focal length is what you need. I bought a pair of generic "reading glasses" and took the lenses out of the frames. $4 at the bargain shop.

May 14th, 2008, 11:17 PM	#52
Serena Steuart Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Studio Alnitak, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Posts: 640 Images: 3	The focusing feature is a good idea and I'll add that when I get to prototype stage (fixed is fine for a single user). Moving back to "film look", I've just noticed that my American Cinematographer Manual says in relation to telecine: "film look refers to the appearance of a print as seen in direct projection......the subjective appearance of the image with its smoothly graduated highlight and shadow contrast". But, as we've seen, it means many things to many people.

May 15th, 2008, 06:29 AM	#54
Serena Steuart Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Studio Alnitak, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Posts: 640 Images: 3	You might have noticed that the X3 doesn't have an EVF. Just the LCD. That is a far superior approach.

May 15th, 2008, 11:41 AM	#57
Mike Stevens Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 75	Would it not be better to see if you can get the LCD hood for the EX3 and put it on the EX1? I wonder how much a replacement hood would be and if it is detachable or hinged permanently to the EX3 LCD. For me, my telescoping unit cost only the lens from a discarded pair of specs and a cardboard box. I had to steal the eye cup from the viewfinder when I realized I did not have a spare. Funny, the Z1 had two eye cups and I only just now noticed the EX1 only has one.

May 16th, 2008, 12:42 AM	#60
James Carl New Boot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 10	EVF on EX1 vs Z7? What is the actual difference? From reading all the posts on "film look", I think that there is a wide range of subjective qualities but I think the point can be summed up as, "not video look". I agree that seeing the Show Scan 60p film projection demos, proved to me that for artsy stuff, I don't want film to look like reality. But for sports and reality shows, 60fps is the way to go, baby.