EX1 and XHA1 mixing together footage. Anyone tried? at DVinfo.net

Tyson Persall · April 23rd, 2008, 08:45 PM

I am planning to shoot a short film and use the EX1 for majority of filming.
However, for some scenes we may have to use a Canon XH-A1.

We have access to One EX1 or two Canon XH-A1s.
I am wondering if using the EX1 for some scenes and A1 for other scenes there will be a major quality difference or look difference between the two cameras.

I realize that using 2 different cameras in the same scene is very difficult to cut together so i would never try that. I expect the EX1 has better (bla-bla) -- I would only be using the A1 for some scenes where we needed 2 cameras at the same time. And the EX1 for times when we only needed 1 camera or slow motion . The best solution would be use 2 EX1s but we dont have access of that. And i like the process of shooting 2 cameras at the same time casue it saves time. Knock out two angles at the same time.

If anyone has used both cams maybe they can tell me if this is a bad idea. If the EX1 will stand out too much then i will just shoot Canon A1s the whole film.

Oleg Kalyan · April 23rd, 2008, 09:17 PM

Wolfgang did a comparative test of two cameras, please do a search.

imho, Canon gamma can look like Sony, through CF settings, but not in reverse order, SOny gamma is less forgiving, giving clipping highlights, in resolution they can look pretty similar, with a slight edge to Sony in Progressive mode.

Andrew Hollister · April 23rd, 2008, 09:18 PM

how long would you need a second EX1 for?
if its a reasonably short time, and you're not putting cameras in exploding cars, i am in atlanta...

Chris Leong · April 23rd, 2008, 09:43 PM

Just cutting together a commercial (A cam EX1, B cam A1) tomorrow afternoon - I'll tell you what's up! -- of course, both cameras will be converted to ProRes 422 to cut together, but even then I'm sure I'll have something to write about...
Cheers
Chris

Tyson Persall · April 23rd, 2008, 10:16 PM

Yes, Chris, Please let me know how it goes...

Thanks Andrew, but Im no longer in Atlanta. Moved to Hollywood. guess i Need to upldate my profile here.

Will search wolfgang. Yeah im not worreid about the two codecs. they both can be converted to cineform.

Just wondering if there is such a Drastic difference that one scene will look like a different movie from the last scene.
Never used EX1. Ive used the A1 many times and it looks great. I imagine the EX1 doesn't look way way different in the eyes of the average viewer and with cine settings they can match close enough. Doing a lot of Night time scenes that the EX1 might fare better with.

Chris Leong · April 23rd, 2008, 10:20 PM

"Doing a lot of Night time scenes that the EX1 might fare better with."

No doubt about that, if you're shooting nights use the EX1 and don't worry if it will cut. It'll be the A1 footage that will have to match the EX1's night stuff, which is extremely impressive.

Chris Leong · April 25th, 2008, 12:19 AM

Okay, been there, done that...

Ummm...

well.

The HDV's CBR codec seems to be a major culprit here. This was a toy commercial, boomerang - frisbee type exterior day deal with kids running around, and lots of flying objects and rapid camera pans.

Obviously the EX1's VBR was a lot better at capturing this stuff. The A1 was plain blurry at certain times.

Colors weren't that hard to match, although I confess I was tuning the EX1 footage to the A1's and not the other way around. As usual with HDV there wasn't a lot of leeway in the A1 footage before it broke up.

Even after ProRes, and downres, it was pretty obvious when you stopped to look closer, which cameras were which.

But of course, in the end, with the music going and the cuts happening, it became harder to tell. And then after secondary color correction and I threw a look over the entire thing...

You know the rest.

So.

Doable? Yes. I'd use the A1 on the stiller subject/angle and the EX1 on the side that's moving more, for sure.

Also the A1 on the more lit side and the EX1 on the darker side, or any side that needs more lattitude or light in general.

And then, as you know, I'd spend my money on as pro an audio person or setup as you can get, because it'll be the audio that stitches your shots together, or not.

In fact, I'd even say spend your big money on the audio and shoot double A1s, if push came to shove.

(but's that's just me, and dramatic films...)

HTH

YMMV
Cheers
Chris

BTW I'm in the Valley. email me if you need any more help.

Travis Cossel · April 25th, 2008, 03:14 AM

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=120188

April 23rd, 2008, 08:45 PM	#1
Tyson Persall Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: North Hollywood, Atlanta Posts: 437	EX1 and XHA1 mixing together footage. Anyone tried? I am planning to shoot a short film and use the EX1 for majority of filming. However, for some scenes we may have to use a Canon XH-A1. We have access to One EX1 or two Canon XH-A1s. I am wondering if using the EX1 for some scenes and A1 for other scenes there will be a major quality difference or look difference between the two cameras. I realize that using 2 different cameras in the same scene is very difficult to cut together so i would never try that. I expect the EX1 has better (bla-bla) -- I would only be using the A1 for some scenes where we needed 2 cameras at the same time. And the EX1 for times when we only needed 1 camera or slow motion . The best solution would be use 2 EX1s but we dont have access of that. And i like the process of shooting 2 cameras at the same time casue it saves time. Knock out two angles at the same time. If anyone has used both cams maybe they can tell me if this is a bad idea. If the EX1 will stand out too much then i will just shoot Canon A1s the whole film. __________________ Tyson X

April 23rd, 2008, 09:18 PM	#3
Andrew Hollister Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Decatur, GA Posts: 198	how long would you need a second EX1 for? if its a reasonably short time, and you're not putting cameras in exploding cars, i am in atlanta... __________________ Sony EX1 v1.11, crap loads of SxS, Macs w/ Final Cut Studio

April 23rd, 2008, 09:43 PM	#4
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Just cutting together a commercial (A cam EX1, B cam A1) tomorrow afternoon - I'll tell you what's up! -- of course, both cameras will be converted to ProRes 422 to cut together, but even then I'm sure I'll have something to write about... Cheers Chris __________________ "The content, not the container."

April 23rd, 2008, 10:16 PM	#5
Tyson Persall Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: North Hollywood, Atlanta Posts: 437	Yes, Chris, Please let me know how it goes... Thanks Andrew, but Im no longer in Atlanta. Moved to Hollywood. guess i Need to upldate my profile here. Will search wolfgang. Yeah im not worreid about the two codecs. they both can be converted to cineform. Just wondering if there is such a Drastic difference that one scene will look like a different movie from the last scene. Never used EX1. Ive used the A1 many times and it looks great. I imagine the EX1 doesn't look way way different in the eyes of the average viewer and with cine settings they can match close enough. Doing a lot of Night time scenes that the EX1 might fare better with. __________________ Tyson X

April 23rd, 2008, 10:20 PM	#6
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	"Doing a lot of Night time scenes that the EX1 might fare better with." No doubt about that, if you're shooting nights use the EX1 and don't worry if it will cut. It'll be the A1 footage that will have to match the EX1's night stuff, which is extremely impressive. __________________ "The content, not the container."

April 23rd, 2008, 09:17 PM	#2
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	Wolfgang did a comparative test of two cameras, please do a search. imho, Canon gamma can look like Sony, through CF settings, but not in reverse order, SOny gamma is less forgiving, giving clipping highlights, in resolution they can look pretty similar, with a slight edge to Sony in Progressive mode.

April 25th, 2008, 12:19 AM	#7
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Okay, been there, done that... Ummm... well. The HDV's CBR codec seems to be a major culprit here. This was a toy commercial, boomerang - frisbee type exterior day deal with kids running around, and lots of flying objects and rapid camera pans. Obviously the EX1's VBR was a lot better at capturing this stuff. The A1 was plain blurry at certain times. Colors weren't that hard to match, although I confess I was tuning the EX1 footage to the A1's and not the other way around. As usual with HDV there wasn't a lot of leeway in the A1 footage before it broke up. Even after ProRes, and downres, it was pretty obvious when you stopped to look closer, which cameras were which. But of course, in the end, with the music going and the cuts happening, it became harder to tell. And then after secondary color correction and I threw a look over the entire thing... You know the rest. So. Doable? Yes. I'd use the A1 on the stiller subject/angle and the EX1 on the side that's moving more, for sure. Also the A1 on the more lit side and the EX1 on the darker side, or any side that needs more lattitude or light in general. And then, as you know, I'd spend my money on as pro an audio person or setup as you can get, because it'll be the audio that stitches your shots together, or not. In fact, I'd even say spend your big money on the audio and shoot double A1s, if push came to shove. (but's that's just me, and dramatic films...) HTH YMMV Cheers Chris BTW I'm in the Valley. email me if you need any more help. __________________ "The content, not the container."

April 25th, 2008, 03:14 AM	#8
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=120188 __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com