720 60P Weddings at DVinfo.net

Paul Dhadialla · April 22nd, 2008, 03:21 PM

Guys, anyone shooting 720 60P for weddings with the EX1?
How do you find the detail compared to 1080 60I

The reason i'm asking is that
-1080/24P may be unsuitable for rapid movement on weddings. I haven't tried this yet - but not confident.
-1080/30P is not blu-ray compliant

1080i is pretty solid for anything you can throw at it - but i'm trying to move away from interlaced.

720 60P seems to be have been adopted by enough HD TV networks and the people on this forum appear to like it.

DVD
What about DVD'S? Are you sampling to 720x480 @ 30P for DVD
Any blurring issues with rapid motion?

Appreciate your help!
Paul

Mike Williams · April 22nd, 2008, 06:45 PM

Hi,

I shot my first three weddings with the EX in three settings:

First 720 30p... looks great.. issues with slomo
1080 30p HQ juddery in slomo and fast pans... not so good
1080 60i HQ is my favorite flavor.

When you do the slomo in post the progressive looks like poop. Maybe I'm missing something, please educate me.

It may be cliche to do a bunch of slo mo but you know what they say about giving people what they want.

Brian Rhodes · April 22nd, 2008, 10:57 PM

You should be ok 60p handles slo-motion very well just shot a live rap concert in 60p I used a lot of slow motion rendered the footage to Blu-ray 24p format looks great if I have time I will post some footage this week.

Paul Dhadialla · April 22nd, 2008, 11:42 PM

Mike & Bryan - thank you for your replies!

Mike I've experimented on 1080 @ 30P and 24P. I agree about juddery pans appearing on both on CRT and LCD - even at 1/48 shutter. 1/24 gives motion blur.

I can see myself using the above settings in a film/documentary/setup situation - easily.
I can restrict my movements, take more cuts - no pans, light my scene nicely and ramp up shutter speed for a crisp apperance.

For wedddings i'm not so sure - one needs slo-mo, you have fast motion, you have to pan a lot, you don't always have the best light etc.

I've actually tried going 60i to 24p and 30p - that actually looks pretty good - and u can go use the 60i for slo-mo. So far it's my favorite too.

Brian I will give 720p a shot too. Technically we're limited by Blu-Ray spec if that is our end product. I would love to see the footage you have. Do you find details ok at 720p compared with 1080i or 1080p?

Cheers
Paul

Mike Williams · May 22nd, 2008, 10:16 PM

I wonder if final delivery is SD DVD with possible BR disk in the future, but not promised, if 720 is the way to go.

Considering the computing power 1920 uses and the shrinking budgets people seem to be encountering perhaps dialing down could be an option.

I will shoot a few more and see but it seems like the 720 footage almost looks better than 1920 when compressed to widescreen SD DVD. I just assumed that 1920 MUST look the best.

Am I imagining this?

How have you settled in on your findings Paul?

Oh and I meant the 24P/30p modes don't do so well with slo mo... the 720 60p is sweeet.

Tim Polster · May 23rd, 2008, 07:31 AM

I could guess that the 720 material is looking better in SD DVD because it is less compressed compared to the 1080p content due to the 35Mbps limit.

Mike Williams · May 25th, 2008, 11:56 AM

I'm going to highjack this thread as it pertains (sort of) to the main idea.

I decided to shoot in 720 30p a few days back. I must say the footage appeared to have more range than in 1920 HQ but that is really subjective.

I was on fire and really happy with my decision. The 30p took a little getting used to but I slowed my moves down and worked within the limits so to speak.

I got to the studio and loaded the footage onto the FCP timeline. First I tried to drop it into the pro res setting for 720 and render it out but that did some wierd aspect ratio thing to my stock HDV stuff from my Z1 as well as cause a strange type of "strobing" effect during locked down scenes! The image pulses about two times per second causing a brief period of digital garbage around the subjects. It goes from somewhat clean to crappy etc.

I closed that sequence and started a new one and let FCP change the setting to match the clip. Same thing. I clicked on the same clip in the capture scratch folder and the QT player opened up so I could play it. It looked great THANK GOD!!!

So I just gave up for a few days as I have a few weeks to bang that one out. I ask for your sage advice as I have not had this issue with 1920x1080 HQ or the SQ varieties. I feel sure that its in the FCP settings but instead of frustrating myself I thought I would seek all of your sage advice :)

Thanks

Mike

Mike Williams · May 25th, 2008, 07:48 PM

Mike,

Had you taken the time to look at the small disclosure triangle by the "RT" at the left side of the timeline you would have noticed that the playback quality was in low

:)

April 22nd, 2008, 03:21 PM	#1
Paul Dhadialla Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 143	720 60P Weddings Guys, anyone shooting 720 60P for weddings with the EX1? How do you find the detail compared to 1080 60I The reason i'm asking is that -1080/24P may be unsuitable for rapid movement on weddings. I haven't tried this yet - but not confident. -1080/30P is not blu-ray compliant 1080i is pretty solid for anything you can throw at it - but i'm trying to move away from interlaced. 720 60P seems to be have been adopted by enough HD TV networks and the people on this forum appear to like it. DVD What about DVD'S? Are you sampling to 720x480 @ 30P for DVD Any blurring issues with rapid motion? Appreciate your help! Paul

April 22nd, 2008, 06:45 PM	#2
Mike Williams Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USVI Posts: 232	EX weddings Hi, I shot my first three weddings with the EX in three settings: First 720 30p... looks great.. issues with slomo 1080 30p HQ juddery in slomo and fast pans... not so good 1080 60i HQ is my favorite flavor. When you do the slomo in post the progressive looks like poop. Maybe I'm missing something, please educate me. It may be cliche to do a bunch of slo mo but you know what they say about giving people what they want.

May 22nd, 2008, 10:16 PM	#5
Mike Williams Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USVI Posts: 232	720 I wonder if final delivery is SD DVD with possible BR disk in the future, but not promised, if 720 is the way to go. Considering the computing power 1920 uses and the shrinking budgets people seem to be encountering perhaps dialing down could be an option. I will shoot a few more and see but it seems like the 720 footage almost looks better than 1920 when compressed to widescreen SD DVD. I just assumed that 1920 MUST look the best. Am I imagining this? How have you settled in on your findings Paul? Oh and I meant the 24P/30p modes don't do so well with slo mo... the 720 60p is sweeet. Last edited by Mike Williams; May 22nd, 2008 at 10:19 PM. Reason: Added content

May 25th, 2008, 11:56 AM	#7
Mike Williams Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USVI Posts: 232	New Dilema I'm going to highjack this thread as it pertains (sort of) to the main idea. I decided to shoot in 720 30p a few days back. I must say the footage appeared to have more range than in 1920 HQ but that is really subjective. I was on fire and really happy with my decision. The 30p took a little getting used to but I slowed my moves down and worked within the limits so to speak. I got to the studio and loaded the footage onto the FCP timeline. First I tried to drop it into the pro res setting for 720 and render it out but that did some wierd aspect ratio thing to my stock HDV stuff from my Z1 as well as cause a strange type of "strobing" effect during locked down scenes! The image pulses about two times per second causing a brief period of digital garbage around the subjects. It goes from somewhat clean to crappy etc. I closed that sequence and started a new one and let FCP change the setting to match the clip. Same thing. I clicked on the same clip in the capture scratch folder and the QT player opened up so I could play it. It looked great THANK GOD!!! So I just gave up for a few days as I have a few weeks to bang that one out. I ask for your sage advice as I have not had this issue with 1920x1080 HQ or the SQ varieties. I feel sure that its in the FCP settings but instead of frustrating myself I thought I would seek all of your sage advice :) Thanks Mike

May 25th, 2008, 07:48 PM	#8
Mike Williams Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USVI Posts: 232	Nevermind :) Mike, Had you taken the time to look at the small disclosure triangle by the "RT" at the left side of the timeline you would have noticed that the playback quality was in low :)

April 22nd, 2008, 10:57 PM	#3
Brian Rhodes Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 753	You should be ok 60p handles slo-motion very well just shot a live rap concert in 60p I used a lot of slow motion rendered the footage to Blu-ray 24p format looks great if I have time I will post some footage this week.

April 22nd, 2008, 11:42 PM	#4
Paul Dhadialla Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 143	Mike & Bryan - thank you for your replies! Mike I've experimented on 1080 @ 30P and 24P. I agree about juddery pans appearing on both on CRT and LCD - even at 1/48 shutter. 1/24 gives motion blur. I can see myself using the above settings in a film/documentary/setup situation - easily. I can restrict my movements, take more cuts - no pans, light my scene nicely and ramp up shutter speed for a crisp apperance. For wedddings i'm not so sure - one needs slo-mo, you have fast motion, you have to pan a lot, you don't always have the best light etc. I've actually tried going 60i to 24p and 30p - that actually looks pretty good - and u can go use the 60i for slo-mo. So far it's my favorite too. Brian I will give 720p a shot too. Technically we're limited by Blu-Ray spec if that is our end product. I would love to see the footage you have. Do you find details ok at 720p compared with 1080i or 1080p? Cheers Paul

May 23rd, 2008, 07:31 AM	#6
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	I could guess that the 720 material is looking better in SD DVD because it is less compressed compared to the 1080p content due to the 35Mbps limit.