Just trawling Sonys site and I found this...

[Mike Thomann]

Originally Posted by Paul Joy

Yes, it is a bitch when upgrades are announced after you purchase, but it's just the way things go, In November all the 1 yr old EX1 users will be rushing to change to an EX5 and the Ex3 owners will be the ones wishing they'd waited.... it's just the way technology is.

Very true. I think that with the current pace of technology going the way it is, it's perfectly understandable for companies to try and take advantage of the now fleeting increments that used to generate income over much longer periods of time. Also, with the EX3 being double the cost, for many it may be considered a separate market. For what it is, the EX1 remains completely amazing.

[Stil Williams]

Originally Posted by Mark David Williams

I would agree with that if it were the case However Sony knew about the EX-3 in February and obviously well before that date. So why keep it secret?

Was it
A) To be a nice surprise for nab?
B) Because they wanted as many as possible to buy the EX-1 and wouldnt have a chance to wait for the EX-3 Which most will consider an improvement on the EX-1. Therefore an upgrade and the upshot is some people would buy twice?
c) Technology was not available and the february article showing the EX-3 Hard drive etc was not real.
d) Sony works in mysterious ways and whatever it is they are right?
e)Its the start of their financial year?

Sony is a business, making money is thier priority, look at the PD 150 / 170 release practically the same stratergy.
It is very very frustrating when u lump £4000 odd hard earned pounds into an invstment only to realise a better model has come out so soon,

Its a large investment and to think cameras are treated like mobile phones or sneakers, basically not as trendy in a few months time.

Maybe thats why NAB is held in Las Vegas, buying gear has become a gamble...

[George Kroonder]

Come on... Do you really think that, Panasonic, Canon, Sony, or whomever, should publish their plans and possible release schedule on DVINFO first? Let's be real.

The EX3 takes nothing away from the EX1. Not one thing. And it delivers the same footage out of the box. Why the commotion?

Everyone that bought the EX1 bought it for a reason, weighed the pro's and (possible) cons and decided to buy it.

If you really needed different or interchangeable lenses or genlock or timecode, or a semi-shoulder mount then you either compromised or bought the wrong camera. My guess is that most EX1 owners did not need these things.

Any piece of glas you mount on the EX3 will set you back a bunch. Good lenses are more then twice the price of an EX1.

Any 35mm adapter that may someday bajonet onto it will be expensive compared to the current lineup. And it may not even diliver better images.

Most of this seems to be about 'feeling' short changed, but your EX1 can't be that old, it is still a desirable camera, so why not trade up? If you need to.

George/

[Ian Smith]

Well I've never been a Sony fan. It really pained me to have to go Sony with the EX1 - I've had far too many bad experiences with far too many of their products in the past. It seems to me that they sell products at a high price based on "style over substance" with the public being used as guinea pigs for their R&D department.

The camera's flaws annoy the hell out of me. Really stupid "mistakes" that would have taken so little to get right go hand-in-hand with some really nice features that show someone somewhere really thought things through. It's almost schizophrenic in nature.

Would I like an EX3 in preference? You betcha (although shoving the Assign 4 button and those other buttons in the same inaccessible place still bugs me). Which, when you think about it, says how happy I am with the EX1 despite my history with Sony and the flaws in the EX1 (because if my experience had been all negative I wouldn't buy another camera from Sony again).

I'm lucky in that I've gone so far over budget with the EX1 and all the bits and pieces needed to support it that "upgrading" to an EX3 just isn't a possibility for me (although this time next year if there's an EX5 I may well be tempted) but even if it were I don't think I could be that mad at Sony about the EX3. It was a risk I took on board when I bought the EX1 and if I wasn't happy taking those risks I shouldn't have bought it.

[Mike Thomann]

Yes, I'm having a hard time understanding how anyone could feel short-changed with the EX1. Think about it, it is still the same exact performace straight out of the box as the next newer model up which is double the cost. And it is still comparable to the F350 and even the F900 but with even better low light.

[Stil Williams]

Originally Posted by George Kroonder

Everyone that bought the EX1 bought it for a reason, weighed the pro's and (possible) cons and decided to buy it.

If you really needed different or interchangeable lenses or genlock or timecode, or a semi-shoulder mount then you either compromised or bought the wrong camera. My guess is that most EX1 owners did not need these things.



George/

You are speaking as if "all" the buyers of the EX1 had the EX3 to compare to, i am sure if they did, then "some" of them would have saved or waited for the EX3 if they had knowledge of it...

[Paul Joy]

If Sony had released an EX1a that fixed the flaws a lot of us have been dealing with then I would have been at the front of the group of angry villagers with my pitch fork. This is a more expensive camera that for all we know could suffer the exact same issues as the EX1, although I'd be shocked if Sony made that mistake again!

[Mark David Williams]

The EX-3 is not by any means a replacement for the EX1.

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I disagree and is why many are now selling their EX-1s to buy the upgrade.
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Different form factors,

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Not really just a semi shoulder mount.
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different lens options,

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The ability to remove the lens was one option that appealed to most of the EX-1 Target market
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considerably different price points.

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No its not only £1500 difference in the UK
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It's like saying the the old XL1 was a replacement for the GL1. Two completely different cameras with different target markets.
The only difference here is that Sony released the fixed lens version first.

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Yes just a coincidence
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So when the EX5 comes out and costs $20,000, will you still be angry that you bought an EX1 when a "better" camera was "just around the corner

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Im not angry Im annoyed. You can try to twist this anyway you want but the truth is This is a replacement for a camera after less than four months old that was kept secret much earlier denying people a choice and getting many to buy twice.

which is exactly what is happening Many here are stating they will replace their EX-1 with the EX-3

THAT is what you would call replacing and makes it a replacement camera.

[Mark David Williams]

Originally Posted by Mike Thomann

Yes, I'm having a hard time understanding how anyone could feel short-changed with the EX1. Think about it, it is still the same exact performace straight out of the box as the next newer model up which is double the cost. And it is still comparable to the F350 and even the F900 but with even better low light.

I dont feel shortchanged I feel annoyed because I was not given choice. The question is why was that choice denied? And its not double the cost here in the UK its £1500 dearer.

[Mark David Williams]

Originally Posted by Paul Joy

If Sony had released an EX1a that fixed the flaws a lot of us have been dealing with then I would have been at the front of the group of angry villagers with my pitch fork. This is a more expensive camera that for all we know could suffer the exact same issues as the EX1, although I'd be shocked if Sony made that mistake again!

They did its called the EX-3 As you just said you would be shocked if sony made the same mistake again. The EX-3 Is the same camera with few added extras and interchangeable lenses Improvements over the EX-1 for many here who would have liked the choice but were denied it.

[George Tasick]

Before I join the argument, I need to ask one essential question.

Did Sony fix the rolling shutter issues on the EX3?

I have yet to see anyone post a comment on this issue and yet it seems to be the most significant flaw in the EX1. Personally I could care less about what button was where or why it was hard to push ... those things I’ll learn to deal with.

But the fact that the rolling shutter had such a hard time with rapid flashes was really a problem for me.

My company services the pyrotechnic industry and their fore rapid flashes are what my footage is all about. Having the rolling shutter issue made the EX1 totally useless to me ... even though I loved everything else about it.

Even with all the advancements over my ole Z1U if the EX3 suffers the same rolling shutter issue than the EX3 is just as useless to me.

Now on the other hand, if the rolling shutter issues have been fixed ... than the EX3 is the freaking greatest thing since sliced bread!

Anyone know if Sony solved that problem with the EX3?

[Mike Thomann]

I actually tend to think that Sony's decision had more to do with the Cinealta division's own excitement over the new 1/2" CMOS tech than the market excitement. They were given a project to make a camera with it and holy crap it worked phenomenally, which motivated them to build upon it. For people involved in the forefront of creation, their biggest concerns when it has to do with timing is, is it really ready? finally not going to change much by the time it is released? They didn't announce the EX1 any sooner in the process.

Also I think the timing may be more of a method for them to illustrate a reflection of their excitement. There is pride behind the people that create, and it is most likely that waiting for a moment like NAB to reflect their excitement was a long hard wait for them as well.

[Dave Blackhurst]

Originally Posted by Mark David Williams

Dave Ive nswered your points one by one No offence meant just defending my right to be annoyed.

OK, isn't the EX3 several thousand $$ more than the EX1??? That's an entirely different price point/market.

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No here in the UK the EX-3 is £1500 more
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SO the argument that you wanted to buy the "better" camera and Sony denied you that option sounds a little strange to me (hey, I can't afford either one...) to say the least.

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Im sorry you cant afford to buy one.
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I buy and sell gear regularly in order to "upgrade" IF I can afford the difference.

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What upgrde within three months of buying a product just out?
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That would seem to be the logical solution rather than getting mad at a big company that is just releasing cameras as they can

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Yes I imagine replacing a product every three months and customers upgrading would be good business practice..
Im not mad at Sony Im annoyed
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(with all the teething problems with the EX1 and Z7, I'd imaging product delays are making sense to someone at the company right now). Be happy for the technology you have, and if you can afford the upgrade, just get on with it.

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What just shut up and go away? Im curious why you are keen to defend Sony or is it your moral duty to put me right? Well to your way of thinking anyway? Which of course I dont accept or agree with.
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There's always going to be something "newer and better", that's life in the age of technology. Go make timeless video - maybe it will make you feel better.

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Dont worry I am just a little annoyed thats all. And dont think Im on my own because many are too. But most will never complain but they may think twice next time around I guess thats business though.

Not challenging your right to vent (and it appears most of that is coming from the UK...). It's just rather a waste of bandwidth... and no doubt when the moderators return from checking out the new toys and enjoying LV, this thread will magically disappear, as it's a bit out of character for DVi...


1500GBP = 3000 USD = SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLAR PRICE DIFFERENCE, I believe roughly 50% more in USD, maybe less in the UK, that's a different price point if I ever saw one. If I'm shopping for a camera with a $5K budget, I'm not looking at $7500 cameras...

Sony has released a new camera, I'm not defending their choice to do so, they can do business as they wish, and if they release products that meet the needs out there, they will continue to do business. I'm just glad that they create good usable products. If someone else has a "better" product and I can swing it, I'll gladly buy that, so should you <wink>!

I fully expect that because of product release and marketing considerations, the camera I just bought (or the computer or TV or whatever) a couple months ago will be replaced with an "upgraded" model in less than a year (or at least one will be announced - I'm actually watching carefully for just such an announcement right now, that may cause me to drop two cams I just bought for something else... but I knew that was a possibility - I've got one other I wish there was a replacement in the works, but it didn't do well in the market, so may not be in line for replacement).

Just about all my shiny "new stuff" is obsolete, but I tend to find it better to enjoy it than worry too terribly much about the next big thing coming down the pipe... Sure it's a bugger to buy something only to find "something better" (or worse yet they just dropped the price...), but not sure it's anything to get riled up over, really... if that doesn't make sense to you, well, that's perfectly fine too. 'nuf said.

[George Kroonder]

Originally Posted by Mark David Williams

I dont feel shortchanged I feel annoyed because I was not given choice. The question is why was that choice denied? And its not double the cost here in the UK its £1500 dearer.

You do know that the EX3 is not expected until another 3 months or so. And first roumors have been buzzing for about a month (maybe even longer).

There is no secret conspiracy. This is just cam 2 in the EX line. It has some more industry features, that won't be that interesting for the EX1 target market of single camera shootists.

I doubt very many EX1 owners would have gone for the EX3. I'm sure there are some that would liked to have the option of interchangable lenses or would have liked timecode, or the semi-shoulder mount but even some of those would rather have put that $3k extra towards SxS cards or a good rig.

Now I'm not speaking for anyone but myself and I'm sure there are a few that could and would have gone with an EX3, and they still can. In three months or so.

The EX1 was announced a year ago as the first of a new series. After the first models, you don't take another year to follow it up with a model aimed at the higher end...

And if Sony was out to get you they would have started with the higher priced EX3 model and then intruduced the EX1, 9 months later. See how "you" (not you, Mark just anyone) liked to have payed 13k only nine months ago "and now they're bringing out a unit for 8k that delivers the same footage, just lacks some of those features I never needed anyway!".

Come on... Could they ever have gotten it right?

George/

P.S. My confrontational style of writing is not intended to offend anyone. I really just can't help being outspoken.

[Mike Thomann]

...exactly!