Flash XDR

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Sean Donnelly

Chris the sensor is analog, but the A/D definitely comes before the component and SDI outs.

That's exactly how I understand it, hence SDI being derived from Component (and not the other way around) rather surprises me.

Regarding the SDI-supported formats, I'd be very grateful if Mike Thomann let us know what he's basing his statement on. So far, he's the only one to say any specific format is NOT output...

[Sean Donnelly]

Like many product manuals for Japanese products, Sony's tend to suffer from the direct translation problem. I think what they mean is whatever you have the component set to output, the SDI will follow.

-Sean

[Mike Thomann]

It's based on posts in this forum and looking into the bandwidth of single channel HD-SDI, and that it can't support 1920x1080p30. For that, dual-link HD-SDI or HDMI was said to be required, which the EX1 has neither. I will locate those sources and if we can determine they are wrong, there's nothing stopping me from buying the EX1.

[Mike Thomann]

Shucks! I was really hoping to be wrong on this, look at the "Standards" table...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Digital_Interface

SMPTE 292M HD-SDI is only 1.485 Gbit/s, and thus only supports up to 720p and 1080i.

Please someone, tell me I'm wrong!!!

[Jon Carlson]

I didn't do an extensive test, but when I tried to capture 1080 24p over HD-SDI I had problems. It was an insignificant thing and I was in a hurry, so I just switched to 1080i and it worked.

Not conclusive, but FWIW.

[Bob Grant]

No restriction on 292M at 25p or 30p 4:2:2 :
http://hdmasters2007.com/pdf/Present..._Wilkinson.pdf

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Yep - it says all 1920x1080 formats, except 50/60p. Which means 1080/24/25/30p should be OK - but then, is Wikipedia simply wrong?

[Bob Grant]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Yep - it says all 1920x1080 formats, except 50/60p. Which means 1080/24/25/30p should be OK - but then, is Wikipedia simply wrong?

Don't trust everything you read in Wikis, they're unmoderated posts with little to no peer group review.
In any case if 292M can carry 50i and 60i then it can by definition carry 25p and 30p, it's impossible to engineer it so it cannot. It MIGHT have to go as PsF but so what?

[Sean Donnelly]

I personally have sent 30p over 292M. 1080p50/60 doesn't really matter because this camera won't shoot it.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Bob Grant

Don't trust everything you read in Wikis, they're unmoderated posts with little to no peer group review.
In any case if 292M can carry 50i and 60i then it can by definition carry 25p and 30p, it's impossible to engineer it so it cannot. It MIGHT have to go as PsF but so what?

I guess you're right, Bob - perhaps in the "Standards" table, by 1080p they mean 1080/50/60p, while 1080i also covers 1080/24/25/30PsF.

EDIT: further down the same Wikipedia article, they say:

"The nominal 1.5 Gbit/s interfaces support most high definition formats. Supported formats include 1080i60, 1080i59.94, 1080i50, 1080p30, 1080p29.97, 1080p25, 1080p24, 1080p23.98, 720p60, 720p59.94, and 720p50"

[Mike Schell]

Originally Posted by Mike Thomann

It's based on posts in this forum and looking into the bandwidth of single channel HD-SDI, and that it can't support 1920x1080p30. For that, dual-link HD-SDI or HDMI was said to be required, which the EX1 has neither. I will locate those sources and if we can determine they are wrong, there's nothing stopping me from buying the EX1.

Hi Mike-
To add confirmation to some of the other posts, 1080p30 is absolutely part of the single-link HD-SDI spec. 1080p50 and 1080p60 require dual-link or 3G HD-SDI.

The EX1 does support 108030 (actually 1080p29.97) recording. However, without additional tests, I am not sure if the HD-SDI output is 1080p29.97 or 1080i59.94. In 1080p23.98 mode, the HD-SDI output is 1080i59.94; the pull-down frames are automatically added. However, Flash XDR can record this signal in 1080p23.98 by removing these frames before MPEG2 compression.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Thanks Mike for this clarification - having ordered the Flash XDR, I was a bit upset by this confusion about the EX1's HD-SDI output capabilities :)

[David Heath]

It's worth noting that for 1080, both the interlace versions and 1080p/30 are exactly the same amount of data, each 1080x30 lines every second. Hence, if an HD-SDI link will carry 1080i/30, it should also carry 1080p/30.

[Mike Thomann]

Thanks everyone for finally clearing that up for me! Well it looks like it's time for me to go back and correct some previous posts and to head to the bank for the EX1. I also found this for anyone interested in how HD video bandwidth is calculated...
http://www.internet2.edu/presentatio...dvid-holub.pdf

Bandwidth calculation:
Resolution: 1920×1080 = 2200×1125 with blanking lines
Color depth: 10 bits/point/color plane = 30 bits/point
Sampling: 4:2:2 = 2/3 bit/point

(2200×1125 pixles) x (30 bit/point) x (30 fps) x (2/3 bit/point) = 1485000000 bps
1485000000 bps = 1.485 Gbps

That leaves exactly 0 kbps for 2 channels of uncompressed audio! So now what? Help please...

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by David Heath

It's worth noting that for 1080, both the interlace versions and 1080p/30 are exactly the same amount of data, each 1080x30 lines every second. Hence, if an HD-SDI link will carry 1080i/30, it should also carry 1080p/30.

Just to correct your last sentence David - I guess you meant this:

" if an HD-SDI link will carry 1080i/60, it should also carry 1080p/30."

Am i right? :)