HD-SDI Output 4:2:2 or 4:2:0?

Sean Donnelly · April 21st, 2008, 08:50 PM

I still don't quite believe it. He says that it is still 420, but I think he was confused and thought the question was directed at the recorded color space. It has been confirmed by numerous sources that the HD-SDI is 422 in live mode, and 420 when playing back from media.

Barry J. Anwender · April 21st, 2008, 09:29 PM

I'd also say he got confused because the interviewer first blurted out 4:2:0. The response was delayed a bit before the Sony Exec answered and I could see him trying to develop an answer. Then a bit latter he mentions that the EX1 will be firmware upgraded to the same EX3 capabilities.

The EX1 has been confirmed to be 4:2:2. Sony is not going to take a step backward with the planned firmware update. Stop and think about it. The EX3 is intended for studio work which today relies heavily on chroma keying.

Dean Gough · April 22nd, 2008, 04:41 AM

It would not be the first time an Exec did not fully know the capabilities of a product, thats not really their job, more a marketing and product management job.

However if you're going to be interviewed make sure you know your stuff or pass it to someone who does to avoid confusion.

I actually agree that it would be unlikely that Sony would downgrade the spec if the EX1 has already been independently confirmed as 422 and 10 bit.

But when you get it from the horses mouth you gots ta wonder!!!

Pretty fine camera it is too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry J. Anwender

I'd also say he got confused because the interviewer first blurted out 4:2:0. The response was delayed a bit before the Sony Exec answered and I could see him trying to develop an answer. Then a bit latter he mentions that the EX1 will be firmware upgraded to the same EX3 capabilities.

The EX1 has been confirmed to be 4:2:2. Sony is not going to take a step backward with the planned firmware update. Stop and think about it. The EX3 is intended for studio work which today relies heavily on chroma keying.

Dean Harrington · April 22nd, 2008, 03:54 PM

"Several color encodings are possible in the serial digital interface. The default (and most common case) is 10-bit linearly sampled video data encoded as 4:2:2 YCbCr. (YCbCr is a digital representation of the YPbPr colorspace). Samples of video are stored as described above. Data words correspond to signal levels of the respective video components, as follows:
The luminance (Y) channel is defined such that a signal level of 0 mV is assigned the codeword 64 (40 hex), and 700 millivolts (full scale) is assigned the codeword 940 (3AC hex) .
For the chroma channels, 0 mV is assigned the code word 512 (200 hex), -350mV is assigned a code word of 64 (40 hex), and +350mV is assigned a code word of 960 (3C0 hex)."
It looks like the rep. misspoke unless Sony is doing something odd.

Greg Boston · April 22nd, 2008, 04:20 PM

With all due respect to Bob, I believe he mis-spoke in the heat of the interview.

At NAB, he's got about a million things on his mind so I'd give him a pass on this. I can get clarification on it.

You can pretty much believe that it's 4:2:2 when taken live from the camera head.

-gb-

Greg Boston · April 24th, 2008, 09:50 AM

It's 4:2:2 when output live. Bob says he is going to contact them to clarify.

-gb-

Danny Hidalgo · April 24th, 2008, 12:48 PM

I would love to see actual footage of this method, with a cross comparison to capturing 4:2:2 live from camera, versus just capturing to card.

Anyone find any footage taken at this point?

Peace and Blessings,
Hidalgo

Dennis Joseph · April 24th, 2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Hidalgo

I would love to see actual footage of this method, with a cross comparison to capturing 4:2:2 live from camera, versus just capturing to card.

Anyone find any footage taken at this point?

Peace and Blessings,
Hidalgo

I really would like to see a comparison video on 422 vs 420

Matt Jeppsen · April 29th, 2008, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

With all due respect to Bob, I believe he mis-spoke in the heat of the interview.

Thanks for raising this question, Greg. We spoke with Bob Ott once more, and he confirmed that the EX3 outputs 4:2:2 from the spigot. The interview video segment has been re-edited to reflect this correction.

Mark Donnell · April 29th, 2008, 12:35 PM

Remember what was said earlier in this discussion - 4:2:2 is somewhat meaningless at this point. What really matters is how many color pixels are actually recorded, since even poor color can be packaged into 4:2:2 or even 4:4:4. I am an HVX-200 user, partially because of the incredible color quality. It will be instructive to have some blinded observers look at video from several sources, including perhaps the EX-1, the EX-3 and the HVX (or the new HPX-170, which has HD-SDI output as well).

Steven Thomas · April 29th, 2008, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Donnell

What really matters is how many color pixels are actually recorded,

Which is all the reason full 1920x1080 raster SDI 4:2:2 10 bit out of the EX1 is decent.

Martijn Scholte · September 19th, 2008, 06:03 AM

from the manual page 116
so that's why my aja iohd "sees" a 1080i25 signal when i haqve a ex1 1080p25 preset

gues for doest mather quality wise because the psf is only a way to store the progressive signal in a interlaced wrapper so both the uper and lower field are taken in the same time
as for the 8 or 10 bit 422 or 420 stil waiting for an answer from sony

cheers

martijn

April 22nd, 2008, 03:54 PM	#34
Dean Harrington Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tokyo Posts: 898	wikipedia ... "Several color encodings are possible in the serial digital interface. The default (and most common case) is 10-bit linearly sampled video data encoded as 4:2:2 YCbCr. (YCbCr is a digital representation of the YPbPr colorspace). Samples of video are stored as described above. Data words correspond to signal levels of the respective video components, as follows: The luminance (Y) channel is defined such that a signal level of 0 mV is assigned the codeword 64 (40 hex), and 700 millivolts (full scale) is assigned the codeword 940 (3AC hex) . For the chroma channels, 0 mV is assigned the code word 512 (200 hex), -350mV is assigned a code word of 64 (40 hex), and +350mV is assigned a code word of 960 (3C0 hex)." It looks like the rep. misspoke unless Sony is doing something odd.

April 24th, 2008, 12:48 PM	#37
Danny Hidalgo Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lockport, IL Posts: 30	The only way to solve this... I would love to see actual footage of this method, with a cross comparison to capturing 4:2:2 live from camera, versus just capturing to card. Anyone find any footage taken at this point? Peace and Blessings, Hidalgo

September 19th, 2008, 06:03 AM	#42
Martijn Scholte New Boot Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 8	1080p25 ex1 hdsdi out is actually 25psf from the manual page 116 so that's why my aja iohd "sees" a 1080i25 signal when i haqve a ex1 1080p25 preset gues for doest mather quality wise because the psf is only a way to store the progressive signal in a interlaced wrapper so both the uper and lower field are taken in the same time as for the 8 or 10 bit 422 or 420 stil waiting for an answer from sony cheers martijn

April 21st, 2008, 08:50 PM	#31
Sean Donnelly Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New York, NY Posts: 188	I still don't quite believe it. He says that it is still 420, but I think he was confused and thought the question was directed at the recorded color space. It has been confirmed by numerous sources that the HD-SDI is 422 in live mode, and 420 when playing back from media.

April 21st, 2008, 09:29 PM	#32
Barry J. Anwender Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 382	I'd also say he got confused because the interviewer first blurted out 4:2:0. The response was delayed a bit before the Sony Exec answered and I could see him trying to develop an answer. Then a bit latter he mentions that the EX1 will be firmware upgraded to the same EX3 capabilities. The EX1 has been confirmed to be 4:2:2. Sony is not going to take a step backward with the planned firmware update. Stop and think about it. The EX3 is intended for studio work which today relies heavily on chroma keying.

April 22nd, 2008, 04:20 PM	#35
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	With all due respect to Bob, I believe he mis-spoke in the heat of the interview. At NAB, he's got about a million things on his mind so I'd give him a pass on this. I can get clarification on it. You can pretty much believe that it's 4:2:2 when taken live from the camera head. -gb-

April 24th, 2008, 09:50 AM	#36
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	It's 4:2:2 when output live. Bob says he is going to contact them to clarify. -gb-

April 29th, 2008, 12:35 PM	#40
Mark Donnell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Silver City, NM Posts: 385	Remember what was said earlier in this discussion - 4:2:2 is somewhat meaningless at this point. What really matters is how many color pixels are actually recorded, since even poor color can be packaged into 4:2:2 or even 4:4:4. I am an HVX-200 user, partially because of the incredible color quality. It will be instructive to have some blinded observers look at video from several sources, including perhaps the EX-1, the EX-3 and the HVX (or the new HPX-170, which has HD-SDI output as well).