K6/ME66 distortion problems, but only on EX1 (not on Z1U)??

Dave Morrison · May 5th, 2008, 08:37 AM

If I can get my hands on a 416, I'll test it on the EX1. But you can add my short shotgun Senn MKH60 to the list of mics that work fine. I set the sensitivity levels in the menu to -29dBu and -35dBu and got very clean audio.

Don Greening · May 5th, 2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malcolm Hamilton

In the meantime, though, can I interpret from the above, Don, that I'd be safest with a Sony shotgun mic?

There others on this forum that are using Sony mics without issue but I can't speak from personal experience. Yet. Hopefully I'll get a crack at testing a Sony mic if Sony comes back and says there's nothing they can do to fix things. The audio issue is not the only thing wrong with my particular EX and Gary over at my local Sony repair facility is waiting for all the little bits to come in before I hand him back my camera to get everything done at once.

- Don

Akira Hakuta · May 5th, 2008, 12:58 PM

Incidentally, the one mic that I have found that works without any issues on my EX1 without issue is the small little dinky shotgun that comes on the HVR-A1U. I am heartened by the fact that someone mentioned the CS-1 working fine though as it is the mic I was looking to upgrade to in the near future anyways.

Jonathan Bland · May 5th, 2008, 01:18 PM

looking forward to your 416 results Dave :)

Graeme Fullick · May 5th, 2008, 03:13 PM

Guys,

I have a lot of microphones inlcuding the Senn 416. Whilst I haven't tested it extensively - in the bit I have done I have had no problems. I ALWAYS use a mic isolation mount (lightwave) and mini-blimp (also lightwave) and custom made very high quality (star quad) cables with my audio gear - as I am very fussy with audio. I have also used the AT835 ST quite a bit without problems, the Rode NGT1 just for tests (no issues), but have not tested my Senn ME64 yet.

Dave Morrison · May 5th, 2008, 04:34 PM

I retested my Sennheiser MKH60 short shotgun today in a slightly quieter room and I've had to revise my input level settings. I broke my own rule the other day and trusted my ears instead of my meters.....never a good idea. When I played the clips back on the EX1 and on my Mac laptop, I had the volume up fairly high and the files sounded pretty good. I was recording at around -29dBu or -35dBu. However, when I opened the files in FCS and watched the clips AND the audio meters, I realized those high playback levels made me think that I had good solid levels. They were too low peaking at around -18dBu and -12dBu on FCS's audio meters. They should have been peaking around -12dBu (average) and -6dBu at maximum. That would leave you some headroom for REALLY loud stuff without clipping.

I redid the tests today using much higher input levels and found that -50dBu or -53dBu was much better and I was even able to use the maximum setting of -65dBu without hitting FCS's clipping indicators. Please note that all these tests were run with the external trim controls set to the center setting (5) for all tests. This control (according to Pg. 54 of the manual) gives you +0dBu gain (at "5", or mid-rotation on the dial), +12dBu (at "10" on the dial) or no signal at the "infinity" (bottom) position. Just remember to get your initial levels set with the internal menu TRIM control making sure that the external dials are at mid-position to start with. Then you'll have a full range of fine-tuning adjustment available to you when you start shooting.

However, all these tests brought up another question. Can somebody who is talking to Sony's Service experts find out if there is some sort of limiter built into the external audio inputs? I ran the gains up all the way and COULD hit the red marks on the Sony's input meters but those same files did NOT hit the clip indicators inside of FCS. I didn't try screaming into the mic, but it never clipped when I raised my voice a LOT. Just remember that cranking up the input gains on this (or any) camera will bring up ALL the background sounds. So, if you're recording quiet sounds in a noisy room, you're not going to like the background sound levels. You're also using Sony's mic pre-amps at their full gain and they aren't the quietest pre's out there.

Malcolm Hamilton · May 5th, 2008, 04:37 PM

Graeme - - did you like the Rode NTG1? I'm considering it (it's not expensive and the salesman at Trew really recommends it) vs. the more expensive CS-1 (twice as much money, but nice and short). I'd love to know which way to go on this.
Regards, Malcolm

Graeme Fullick · May 6th, 2008, 03:37 AM

Malcolm,

The NTG1 is a lot of mic for the money. It sounds a lot like the Senn MKH416 (perhaps my favourite mic), but is a lot more sensitive to handling noise - so you will need to get good isolation. I don't mind the CS1 - which is also a great little mic, but I didn't buy it as I thought that it was a bit thin at the bottom end compared to my 416. It is however a very nice compact mic - which is a plus if you want to use it on the camera all of the time. Both have their good and bad points, but the NTG1 probably gives more bang for your buck. However, I don't think that you would go wrong with either mic - just make sure you get a good cable and isolation - the key to better audio performance.

Malcolm Hamilton · May 6th, 2008, 06:03 AM

Thanks so much for your reply, Graeme.
Malcolm

Akira Hakuta · May 12th, 2008, 07:59 PM

I didn't want this thread to die as I think its an important one to keep out there. Just wanted to update people, I ordered an AT875R today and I should have it by Wednesday; hopefully it will work as its supposed to with my EX1 as I was hoping to avoid the cost of the CS-1 which was my other option, other than the NTG-1.

Akira Hakuta · May 14th, 2008, 11:23 AM

For all those with these shotgun mic issues, just wanted to let people know I got my ATR875 today and it works exactly as it should with the EX1, no audio issues at all. That is, aside from the fact that my channel 2 audio produces subtle but noticeable clicking noises when I adjust the audio level manually, and those clicking noises are recorded to tape. Has anybody else noticed this? Anyways, the main problem I had with this camera is now fixed.

Germaine Baron · May 14th, 2008, 11:53 AM

My EX1 is currently in for service at SONY (San Jose). According to the technician, SONY Japan is aware of "clicking" noise when manually adjusting gain while recording. They do not currently have a solution and is "working on it".

Akira Hakuta · May 14th, 2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Germaine Baron

My EX1 is currently in for service at SONY (San Jose). According to the technician, SONY Japan is aware of "clicking" noise when manually adjusting gain while recording. They do not currently have a solution and is "working on it".

Thanks for the info Germaine, that is ridiculous that they don't know how to fix that. When I first got this replacement camera back from them, it didn't have the clicking issue. While I was testing the camera out though to make sure everything works as it should and none of the old problems were there, channel 2 started clicking on me. Luckily thats the channel my wireless or feed from mult boxes runs to so there's not much adjusting of the audio level while people are talking.

Arild Pedersen · May 14th, 2008, 12:39 PM

This Rane pdf-document discuss the pin-1 XLR problem. Anybody checked if pin 1 is connected to chassis on EX-1?
Here is the link:
http://www.rane.com/pdf/ranenotes/Gr...%20Devices.pdf

Piotr Wozniacki · May 14th, 2008, 12:52 PM

I don't have any clicking when adjusting gain, but have another problem: when turning the knobs, the channel is muted in my headphones - it only returns after I stop adjustment.

This also happens with the internal EX1 mic, so it definitely is not connected with the XLR "Pin1 problem".

Anybody experience this?

May 5th, 2008, 03:13 PM	#50
Graeme Fullick Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Newcastle, Australia Posts: 337	Guys, I have a lot of microphones inlcuding the Senn 416. Whilst I haven't tested it extensively - in the bit I have done I have had no problems. I ALWAYS use a mic isolation mount (lightwave) and mini-blimp (also lightwave) and custom made very high quality (star quad) cables with my audio gear - as I am very fussy with audio. I have also used the AT835 ST quite a bit without problems, the Rode NGT1 just for tests (no issues), but have not tested my Senn ME64 yet. __________________ Graeme

May 5th, 2008, 04:34 PM	#51
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	Revising my earlier level settings I retested my Sennheiser MKH60 short shotgun today in a slightly quieter room and I've had to revise my input level settings. I broke my own rule the other day and trusted my ears instead of my meters.....never a good idea. When I played the clips back on the EX1 and on my Mac laptop, I had the volume up fairly high and the files sounded pretty good. I was recording at around -29dBu or -35dBu. However, when I opened the files in FCS and watched the clips AND the audio meters, I realized those high playback levels made me think that I had good solid levels. They were too low peaking at around -18dBu and -12dBu on FCS's audio meters. They should have been peaking around -12dBu (average) and -6dBu at maximum. That would leave you some headroom for REALLY loud stuff without clipping. I redid the tests today using much higher input levels and found that -50dBu or -53dBu was much better and I was even able to use the maximum setting of -65dBu without hitting FCS's clipping indicators. Please note that all these tests were run with the external trim controls set to the center setting (5) for all tests. This control (according to Pg. 54 of the manual) gives you +0dBu gain (at "5", or mid-rotation on the dial), +12dBu (at "10" on the dial) or no signal at the "infinity" (bottom) position. Just remember to get your initial levels set with the internal menu TRIM control making sure that the external dials are at mid-position to start with. Then you'll have a full range of fine-tuning adjustment available to you when you start shooting. However, all these tests brought up another question. Can somebody who is talking to Sony's Service experts find out if there is some sort of limiter built into the external audio inputs? I ran the gains up all the way and COULD hit the red marks on the Sony's input meters but those same files did NOT hit the clip indicators inside of FCS. I didn't try screaming into the mic, but it never clipped when I raised my voice a LOT. Just remember that cranking up the input gains on this (or any) camera will bring up ALL the background sounds. So, if you're recording quiet sounds in a noisy room, you're not going to like the background sound levels. You're also using Sony's mic pre-amps at their full gain and they aren't the quietest pre's out there.

May 6th, 2008, 03:37 AM	#53
Graeme Fullick Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Newcastle, Australia Posts: 337	Malcolm, The NTG1 is a lot of mic for the money. It sounds a lot like the Senn MKH416 (perhaps my favourite mic), but is a lot more sensitive to handling noise - so you will need to get good isolation. I don't mind the CS1 - which is also a great little mic, but I didn't buy it as I thought that it was a bit thin at the bottom end compared to my 416. It is however a very nice compact mic - which is a plus if you want to use it on the camera all of the time. Both have their good and bad points, but the NTG1 probably gives more bang for your buck. However, I don't think that you would go wrong with either mic - just make sure you get a good cable and isolation - the key to better audio performance. __________________ Graeme

May 14th, 2008, 12:39 PM	#59
Arild Pedersen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Elverum Norway Posts: 62	AES grounding and shielding This Rane pdf-document discuss the pin-1 XLR problem. Anybody checked if pin 1 is connected to chassis on EX-1? Here is the link: http://www.rane.com/pdf/ranenotes/Gr...%20Devices.pdf

May 14th, 2008, 12:52 PM	#60
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	I don't have any clicking when adjusting gain, but have another problem: when turning the knobs, the channel is muted in my headphones - it only returns after I stop adjustment. This also happens with the internal EX1 mic, so it definitely is not connected with the XLR "Pin1 problem". Anybody experience this? __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

May 5th, 2008, 08:37 AM	#46
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	If I can get my hands on a 416, I'll test it on the EX1. But you can add my short shotgun Senn MKH60 to the list of mics that work fine. I set the sensitivity levels in the menu to -29dBu and -35dBu and got very clean audio.

May 5th, 2008, 12:58 PM	#48
Akira Hakuta Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 44	Incidentally, the one mic that I have found that works without any issues on my EX1 without issue is the small little dinky shotgun that comes on the HVR-A1U. I am heartened by the fact that someone mentioned the CS-1 working fine though as it is the mic I was looking to upgrade to in the near future anyways.

May 5th, 2008, 01:18 PM	#49
Jonathan Bland Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Way Far Away Posts: 230	looking forward to your 416 results Dave :)

May 5th, 2008, 04:37 PM	#52
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Graeme - - did you like the Rode NTG1? I'm considering it (it's not expensive and the salesman at Trew really recommends it) vs. the more expensive CS-1 (twice as much money, but nice and short). I'd love to know which way to go on this. Regards, Malcolm

May 6th, 2008, 06:03 AM	#54
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Thanks so much for your reply, Graeme. Malcolm

May 12th, 2008, 07:59 PM	#55
Akira Hakuta Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 44	I didn't want this thread to die as I think its an important one to keep out there. Just wanted to update people, I ordered an AT875R today and I should have it by Wednesday; hopefully it will work as its supposed to with my EX1 as I was hoping to avoid the cost of the CS-1 which was my other option, other than the NTG-1.

May 14th, 2008, 11:23 AM	#56
Akira Hakuta Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 44	For all those with these shotgun mic issues, just wanted to let people know I got my ATR875 today and it works exactly as it should with the EX1, no audio issues at all. That is, aside from the fact that my channel 2 audio produces subtle but noticeable clicking noises when I adjust the audio level manually, and those clicking noises are recorded to tape. Has anybody else noticed this? Anyways, the main problem I had with this camera is now fixed.

May 14th, 2008, 11:53 AM	#57
Germaine Baron New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 16	My EX1 is currently in for service at SONY (San Jose). According to the technician, SONY Japan is aware of "clicking" noise when manually adjusting gain while recording. They do not currently have a solution and is "working on it".