Questions to Sony at NAB about Ex1 at DVinfo.net

Swen Goebbels · March 18th, 2008, 12:48 PM

What do you think about the idea to start a thread where we ALL can post questions about the EX1 (Red problem etc...). We will chose one person from this board who can ask them at the NAB show and post the answers here on DVinfo.net.

Chris Leong · March 18th, 2008, 01:02 PM

Well you can add the non-appearance of lower cost SxS cards for starters... or maybe get a lead as to when the lower costs will start to trickle in. Maybe when they've recovered their R&D costs?

Dennis Joseph · March 18th, 2008, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swen Goebbels

What do you think about the idea to start a thread where we ALL can post questions about the EX1 (Red problem etc...). We will chose one person from this board who can ask them at the NAB show and post the answers here on DVinfo.net.

That's not a bad idea. Unfortunatly I will not be at the show but I would be interested to know what those Sony guys know. I don't know if they will be able to answer even half of the questions we throw out at them. When you call sony about the issues stated on this forum they seem oblivious to it. What makes you think the guys at the Sony booth will know better?

Swen Goebbels · March 18th, 2008, 01:15 PM

Dennis,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Joseph

Unfortunatly I will not be at the show but I would be interested to know what those Sony guys know.

I'm there, but my english and my knowledge about camcorders is not good enough to discuss this complex question with them really good.

Quote:

When you call sony about the issues stated on this forum they seem oblivious to it. What makes you think the guys at the Sony booth will know better?

Well last year when I was at the IBC in Amsterdam I realized that Sony really had some of the EX1 engineers at the show and not only fair hostess like they do it at car shows. So these guys really know what they are selling there!

When somebody like the Board-Owner or an other representative from Dvinfo.net will ask them these questions I'm sure they will do their best to answer them. In my opinion this Board can do more for their positive (also negative) image than any Video magazin can do. Here are the people who REALLY buy such a camcorder.

Dennis Joseph · March 18th, 2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swen Goebbels

Dennis,

I'm there, but my english and my knowledge about camcorders is not good enough to discuss this complex question with them really good.

Well last year when I was at the IBC in Amsterdam I realized that Sony really had some of the EX1 engineers at the show and not only fair hostess like they do it at car shows. So these guys really know what they are selling there!

When somebody like the Board-Owner or an other representative from Dvinfo.net will ask them these questions I'm sure they will do their best to answer them. In my opinion this Board can do more for their positive (also negative) image than any Video magazin can do. Here are the people who REALLY buy such a camcorder.

I agree with you. Lets hope they can answer a few questions

Greg Boston · March 18th, 2008, 01:24 PM

Like what kind of questions? Make a list. I'm sure we'll get them answered at NAB.

-gb-

Mathieu Ghekiere · March 18th, 2008, 01:53 PM

Well here is a list of problems showing up:

1. Vignette problem...
Recognized by Sony, but many people get their camera's back after repair without the issue being fixed. What's up with that?

2. Backfocus problem...
I've heard some problems about Backfocus problems with the ND filter or something? What's up with that?

3. The problem with blacks that have reddish tints... People guess it has to do with the IR filtering. What's up with that?

4. Not a problem, but what Chris said: Sony promised support for lower cost cards... Are they artificially holding this up to make more profit? When are they coming?

6. I think it has to be made clear that these issues are costing people money! Sony should do something about them, or all these issues will become very negative press for Sony...

Michael H. Stevens · March 18th, 2008, 01:56 PM

Let us all meet together at the Sony booth before the Sony party. Let them see some angry numbers. Say 3pm on April 14.

Malcolm Hamilton · March 18th, 2008, 02:14 PM

#7 (not everyone has a problem with this, but I sure do): When will the Sony Clip Browser for Macs do what it does for PCs... re-wrap the EX files to MXF, so I can get them into AVID and finally start editing!

Hopefully,
Malcolm

Brian Cassar · March 18th, 2008, 02:39 PM

#8: Maybe Sony can tell us also why all these problems to downconvert HD to SD either via hardware or software.

#9: and from what others complained: the ND filter seems to jam in between stops

#10: zoom ring is quite loose when used in manual zooming

Jon Carlson · March 18th, 2008, 02:49 PM

Dear Sony,

I paid you over $6,600 for my camera. Why on earth does it only perform on par with a $13,200 camera, rather than a $132,000 camera?

----

No, I really do understand that some of the issues users are experiencing are serious and significant (particularly the vignette and backfocus problems), but let's keep in mind that Sony has broken through just about every price / performance ratio that existed in the past. 1/2" chips... true 1920x1080 sensors, 23.976p performance, over/under cranking, tapeless workflow, true manual focus lens, the list goes on and on.

Sony should deal with the real issues relating to quality control and some of the fundamentals of the camera design, but those of us who have bought this camera have purchased amazing value for what we paid. We didn't by an F23, or even an F350. We didn't buy a Red. We paid less than $10,000 for a full camera system, including an amazing LCD screen and high-quality HD lens.

So here's my number 11: How do you get away with charging so little?

Brian Cassar · March 18th, 2008, 03:04 PM

I definetely do not agree with you Jon. I always bought Sony cameras because Sony cameras are usually build professionally. The same cannot be said for the EX1. I cannot accept that a camera aimed for the semi-pro and even the pros can have such aweful issues such as the backfocus and vignette problems - irrespectively of price. Pros want a camera to work with, consistently everytime they switch on the camera - amateurs want something to film with occassionaly and in HD.

No Jon, a cheap price does not excuse Sony for this biggest blunder ever. I cannot tell my clients that the wide shots are slightly soft and out of focus because Sony decided not to give a hoot about it since the camera was aimed at a low price bracket. I cannot ask my clients to ignore the top corners of their plasma / lcd screen! And definetely I cannot dictate my client what type of DVD player / TV combo should he buy so as not to see the famous line twitter.

Swen Goebbels · March 18th, 2008, 03:36 PM

I also don't agree with Jon on this topic. Sure it's a big plus for Sony that they offer a camcorder under 10.000$ with 1/2" chips and true 1920x1080 sensors. That's what I was waiting for and this was the reasons why I didn't buy a (cheaper) HVX200. Also because I had zero problems with my PD170 during the last years!

But you can not really defend a camcorder which has so many problems just because we did not pay 200.000$ for it. For me a lower-budget version of the F23 with only black&white colors would be also useless! I would not pay 7000$ for something like this....

I don't like the idea to explain my customers why the German Flagg on a sports event will not be black-red-gold anylonger. lol

Thanks for all your questions!

Bob Grant · March 18th, 2008, 05:15 PM

I'm kind of agreeing with Jon here.
Sure I damn well want my camera fixed but at the same time I realise corners have to be cut at this price point. I cannot buy a decent prime lens for anything like the price of my EX1 let alone a zoom. A large part of the cost of top shelf optics is in the QA and by that I mean scrapping a lot of duds that don't meet spec. Judging by the anecdotal evidence we're getting here the yield rate on the EX1's lenses is the problem and I wonder what would happen to the price if a signifcant proportion had to be scrapped as they came off the production line.
If I'm right though this opens a can of worms for Sony. What should a potential purchaser do, get 10 cameras on approval and send back the 9 that fail on the optical test bench?
If Sony cannot fix these problems then they at the least need to manage the user expectation otherwise the disquiet is going to grow. At the moment it's their dealers left to face the music, I'd hate to be one of them. I know our local dealer is copping flak over this and in all fairness there's not much he can do while Sony remain in denial. No doubt there'll be plenty of dealers also at NAB giving Sony an earfull over this.
I can't add anything to the list of issues and I do support the idea of some concerted effort at NAB. Can I suggest one or more take along their cameras to demonstrate the problems first hand.
I'd also recommend a trip to The Dugout where Sony Australia host lunch for the expats. There you can find a quiet place to have an audible conversation with the Sony people, trying to do that in the chaos around the Sony stand would be a futile exercise.

Daniel Weber · March 18th, 2008, 07:46 PM

I wouldn't expect much from the Sony reps at NAB. I have found most of the reps for Sony (or for most of the camera companies to be exact) to be pretty uninformed (brain dead is a little bit to strong a term).

I went to the GV Expo in Washington DC last November to ask the Sony guys some questions about the EX1 that I had on order. I was planning on taking the camera to Mongolia in February and wanted to know how it would handle the cold weather. Their response was why don't you call and tell us when you get back!!!!

I have found that if you read most of the information available online you will know twice as much as the "sales reps". What makes it worse is most of these guys have never picked up a camera and used it professionally. They just sell them.

I guess what I am saying is don't go to NAB expecting a lot of answers to your questions.

Daniel Weber

March 18th, 2008, 01:02 PM	#2
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Well you can add the non-appearance of lower cost SxS cards for starters... or maybe get a lead as to when the lower costs will start to trickle in. Maybe when they've recovered their R&D costs? __________________ "The content, not the container."

March 18th, 2008, 12:48 PM	#1
Swen Goebbels Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Aachen, Germany and Las Vegas NV Posts: 107	Questions to Sony at NAB about Ex1 What do you think about the idea to start a thread where we ALL can post questions about the EX1 (Red problem etc...). We will chose one person from this board who can ask them at the NAB show and post the answers here on DVinfo.net.

March 18th, 2008, 01:24 PM	#6
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Like what kind of questions? Make a list. I'm sure we'll get them answered at NAB. -gb-

March 18th, 2008, 01:53 PM	#7
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	Well here is a list of problems showing up: 1. Vignette problem... Recognized by Sony, but many people get their camera's back after repair without the issue being fixed. What's up with that? 2. Backfocus problem... I've heard some problems about Backfocus problems with the ND filter or something? What's up with that? 3. The problem with blacks that have reddish tints... People guess it has to do with the IR filtering. What's up with that? 4. Not a problem, but what Chris said: Sony promised support for lower cost cards... Are they artificially holding this up to make more profit? When are they coming? 6. I think it has to be made clear that these issues are costing people money! Sony should do something about them, or all these issues will become very negative press for Sony... __________________ http://productionsofthe3rdkind.com http://pr3k.com

March 18th, 2008, 01:56 PM	#8
Michael H. Stevens Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palm Desert, California Posts: 311	Let us all meet together at the Sony booth before the Sony party. Let them see some angry numbers. Say 3pm on April 14.

March 18th, 2008, 02:14 PM	#9
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	#7 (not everyone has a problem with this, but I sure do): When will the Sony Clip Browser for Macs do what it does for PCs... re-wrap the EX files to MXF, so I can get them into AVID and finally start editing! Hopefully, Malcolm

March 18th, 2008, 02:39 PM	#10
Brian Cassar Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Malta Posts: 306	#8: Maybe Sony can tell us also why all these problems to downconvert HD to SD either via hardware or software. #9: and from what others complained: the ND filter seems to jam in between stops #10: zoom ring is quite loose when used in manual zooming

March 18th, 2008, 02:49 PM	#11
Jon Carlson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Reading, PA USA Posts: 61	Dear Sony, I paid you over $6,600 for my camera. Why on earth does it only perform on par with a $13,200 camera, rather than a $132,000 camera? ---- No, I really do understand that some of the issues users are experiencing are serious and significant (particularly the vignette and backfocus problems), but let's keep in mind that Sony has broken through just about every price / performance ratio that existed in the past. 1/2" chips... true 1920x1080 sensors, 23.976p performance, over/under cranking, tapeless workflow, true manual focus lens, the list goes on and on. Sony should deal with the real issues relating to quality control and some of the fundamentals of the camera design, but those of us who have bought this camera have purchased amazing value for what we paid. We didn't by an F23, or even an F350. We didn't buy a Red. We paid less than $10,000 for a full camera system, including an amazing LCD screen and high-quality HD lens. So here's my number 11: How do you get away with charging so little?

March 18th, 2008, 03:04 PM	#12
Brian Cassar Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Malta Posts: 306	I definetely do not agree with you Jon. I always bought Sony cameras because Sony cameras are usually build professionally. The same cannot be said for the EX1. I cannot accept that a camera aimed for the semi-pro and even the pros can have such aweful issues such as the backfocus and vignette problems - irrespectively of price. Pros want a camera to work with, consistently everytime they switch on the camera - amateurs want something to film with occassionaly and in HD. No Jon, a cheap price does not excuse Sony for this biggest blunder ever. I cannot tell my clients that the wide shots are slightly soft and out of focus because Sony decided not to give a hoot about it since the camera was aimed at a low price bracket. I cannot ask my clients to ignore the top corners of their plasma / lcd screen! And definetely I cannot dictate my client what type of DVD player / TV combo should he buy so as not to see the famous line twitter.

March 18th, 2008, 03:36 PM	#13
Swen Goebbels Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Aachen, Germany and Las Vegas NV Posts: 107	I also don't agree with Jon on this topic. Sure it's a big plus for Sony that they offer a camcorder under 10.000$ with 1/2" chips and true 1920x1080 sensors. That's what I was waiting for and this was the reasons why I didn't buy a (cheaper) HVX200. Also because I had zero problems with my PD170 during the last years! But you can not really defend a camcorder which has so many problems just because we did not pay 200.000$ for it. For me a lower-budget version of the F23 with only black&white colors would be also useless! I would not pay 7000$ for something like this.... I don't like the idea to explain my customers why the German Flagg on a sports event will not be black-red-gold anylonger. lol Thanks for all your questions!

March 18th, 2008, 05:15 PM	#14
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	I'm kind of agreeing with Jon here. Sure I damn well want my camera fixed but at the same time I realise corners have to be cut at this price point. I cannot buy a decent prime lens for anything like the price of my EX1 let alone a zoom. A large part of the cost of top shelf optics is in the QA and by that I mean scrapping a lot of duds that don't meet spec. Judging by the anecdotal evidence we're getting here the yield rate on the EX1's lenses is the problem and I wonder what would happen to the price if a signifcant proportion had to be scrapped as they came off the production line. If I'm right though this opens a can of worms for Sony. What should a potential purchaser do, get 10 cameras on approval and send back the 9 that fail on the optical test bench? If Sony cannot fix these problems then they at the least need to manage the user expectation otherwise the disquiet is going to grow. At the moment it's their dealers left to face the music, I'd hate to be one of them. I know our local dealer is copping flak over this and in all fairness there's not much he can do while Sony remain in denial. No doubt there'll be plenty of dealers also at NAB giving Sony an earfull over this. I can't add anything to the list of issues and I do support the idea of some concerted effort at NAB. Can I suggest one or more take along their cameras to demonstrate the problems first hand. I'd also recommend a trip to The Dugout where Sony Australia host lunch for the expats. There you can find a quiet place to have an audible conversation with the Sony people, trying to do that in the chaos around the Sony stand would be a futile exercise.

March 18th, 2008, 07:46 PM	#15
Daniel Weber Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 696	I wouldn't expect much from the Sony reps at NAB. I have found most of the reps for Sony (or for most of the camera companies to be exact) to be pretty uninformed (brain dead is a little bit to strong a term). I went to the GV Expo in Washington DC last November to ask the Sony guys some questions about the EX1 that I had on order. I was planning on taking the camera to Mongolia in February and wanted to know how it would handle the cold weather. Their response was why don't you call and tell us when you get back!!!! I have found that if you read most of the information available online you will know twice as much as the "sales reps". What makes it worse is most of these guys have never picked up a camera and used it professionally. They just sell them. I guess what I am saying is don't go to NAB expecting a lot of answers to your questions. Daniel Weber