sd dvd from ex1 : horrible

[Piotr Wozniacki]

FWIW, I have just rendered my EX1's 1080/25p HQ mxf into SD PAL DVD format, using Edius, and it looks SPLENDID, absolutely line-twitter free! And that's without ANY special treatment of the source, or output settings...In a 720x576 window, the rendered clip looks EXACTLY like the original on a full 1920x1080 screen - the same rich colours, no compression artefacting.

Sony, wake up!

Disclaimer: I am using the newest TBYB version downloadable since only recently from Canopus site (Broadcast 4.6)

[Paul Kellett]

Piotr.
Edius or Vegas ? which do you prefer ?
Also you've rendered to MPEG-2 obviously but have you actually burnt it to DVD and watched it on tv ?

Paul

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Paul Kellett

Piotr.
Edius or Vegas ? which do you prefer ?
Also you've rendered to MPEG-2 obviously but have you actually burnt it to DVD and watched it on tv ?

Paul

Premature question, Paul :) I'll keep you posted.

[Paul Kellett]

Hmm.
How much is Edius gonna cost me ?

[Steve Sykes]

Originally Posted by Steve Sykes

Dennis can you frameserve to MPEG streamclip from your NLE? Can you expand on your workflow using this method. Did you export the "squared 5" MPEG streamclip straight to MPEG2 for a SD DVD or did you create an intermediate file or frameserve to another encoder?

I have tried to frameserve to MPEG streamclip from Vegas but it produces black video. I tried this using debugmode frameserver. Can anyone confirm frameserving will definetely not work, I want to cut down on the use of intermediate files to save hard drive space! I like the method Jacob uses:

Originally Posted by Jacob Nielsen

No need for intermediate renders. I use Debugmode Frameserver. Frameserve to avi from vegas, open that avi in Frameserver and use whatever resize filter settings you want. Frameserve from Virtualdub and and encode this avi from TMPG encoder. Voila!

It's a shame that this doesn't work with MPEG streamclip if the resizing conversion is even better than virtualdubs.

Have people found a 'best method' that works from this thread? I have noticed that comments have stopped recently. ATM I'll be using Jacob's method for large video footage. For small amounts of footage, rendering to a lossy avi, then to Mpeg Streamclip. If I buy the MPEG2 codec for Quicktime will Mpeg Streamclip export to DVD MPEG2 or will it still be better to export to export to another avi then use TMPGenc or similar to render to MPEG? As you can see there are too many stages!

Dennis, I would still like to know how you used MPEG streamclip in your workflow!?

Why can't NLE's have better conversion algorithms, it seems crazy to think that free third party software can do a better job!

[Steven Thomas]

Have you downloaded Debugmode's latest frameserver software?
I have and it works great with Sony Vegas 8.0B to Procoder 3.

[Steve Sykes]

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

Have you downloaded Debugmode's latest frameserver software?
I have and it works great with Sony Vegas 8.0B to Procoder 3.

Yes I have version 2.5. I can frameserve to virtualdub fine. I don't think it's a problem with Debugmode I just think Mpeg Streamclip doesn't support frameserving.

[Jon Carlson]

Is it just me or is there a bit of an elephant in the room here? Major studios and large production companies stopped shooting SD a while ago, even if their final output medium was still SD DVD or whatever.

Take, for example, The Office (US Version... my apologies to all the fans of the original). This is shot with an F900 in 60i. We know from Adam Wilt's comparison tests that the EX1, while not competitive with the F900 per se, generates roughly similar amounts of detail.

When it's scaled down to SD DVD release, it looks pretty freakin' good. Same original image size (1920 x 1080), same native chip resolution, similar detail levels. I find it hard to believe that the difference between 2/3" CCD sensors and a 1/2" CMOS sensors is to blame. Nor do I think it's the XDCAM EX codec.

That leaves post-production and processing as the source of the troubles.

So, what are larger studios and production companies using that we haven't discussed yet?

[Dennis Schmitz]

Originally Posted by Steve Sykes

I have tried to frameserve to MPEG streamclip from Vegas but it produces black video. I tried this using debugmode frameserver. Can anyone confirm frameserving will definetely not work, I want to cut down on the use of intermediate files to save hard drive space! I like the method Jacob uses:

It's a shame that this doesn't work with MPEG streamclip if the resizing conversion is even better than virtualdubs.

Have people found a 'best method' that works from this thread? I have noticed that comments have stopped recently. ATM I'll be using Jacob's method for large video footage. For small amounts of footage, rendering to a lossy avi, then to Mpeg Streamclip. If I buy the MPEG2 codec for Quicktime will Mpeg Streamclip export to DVD MPEG2 or will it still be better to export to export to another avi then use TMPGenc or similar to render to MPEG? As you can see there are too many stages!

Dennis, I would still like to know how you used MPEG streamclip in your workflow!?

Why can't NLE's have better conversion algorithms, it seems crazy to think that free third party software can do a better job!

Sorry, my opinion was wrong about MPEG Streamclip.
It may be a bit sharper than VirtualDubs' Lanczos resize, but it produces some ugly color artifacts.

I will post a few stills tomorrow. ;)


regards Dennis

[Adam Forgione]

Originally Posted by Jon Carlson

Is it just me or is there a bit of an elephant in the room here? Major studios and large production companies stopped shooting SD a while ago, even if their final output medium was still SD DVD or whatever.

Take, for example, The Office (US Version... my apologies to all the fans of the original). This is shot with an F900 in 60i. We know from Adam Wilt's comparison tests that the EX1, while not competitive with the F900 per se, generates roughly similar amounts of detail.

When it's scaled down to SD DVD release, it looks pretty freakin' good. Same original image size (1920 x 1080), same native chip resolution, similar detail levels. I find it hard to believe that the difference between 2/3" CCD sensors and a 1/2" CMOS sensors is to blame. Nor do I think it's the XDCAM EX codec.

That leaves post-production and processing as the source of the troubles.

So, what are larger studios and production companies using that we haven't discussed yet?

yes i agree, what are they using

[Dennis Schmitz]

Originally Posted by Adam Forgione

yes i agree, what are they using

I don't think that their scaler are any better than the ones used in virtualdub.
Virtualdub beats many very expensive programs in terms of picture quality...

And many commercial SD-DVDs are suffering from the low DVD-resolution and show the same artifacts of course.


regards Dennis

[Steve Sykes]

Originally Posted by Dennis Schmitz

I don't think that their scaler are any better than the ones used in virtualdub.
Virtualdub beats many very expensive programs in terms of picture quality...

And many commercial SD-DVDs are suffering from the low DVD-resolution and show the same artifacts of course.


regards Dennis

Apparently TMPGEnc 4 Express also has resize options such as the Lancosz3 filter so I presume this will be identical to using virtualdub? I have TMPGEnc 2.5 so I don't have this feature.

[Dennis Schmitz]

Originally Posted by Steve Sykes

Apparently TMPGEnc 4 Express also has resize options such as the Lancosz3 filter so I presume this will be identical to using virtualdub? I have TMPGEnc 2.5 so I don't have this feature.

I don't know if the quality is really the same because avisynth has the same resize filters, too. But it introduces some very strange color fringing (don't know how to explain that phenomenon)...


regards Dennis

[David W Williamson]

I, like many have been following this thread. It's now my turn to produce a good mpeg2 render from EX1's 1080p30. I've got debugmode installed and frameserving from Vegas 8, but what project settings in Vegas should I use? If I choose NTSC DV in Vegas, then the frameserved avi is 720x480. I assume to take advantage of the resizer in VirtualDubMod I need to start with a 1920x1080 file, so the only option available to me is to choose the HD 1920x1080 60i project preset. Is that right?

Also, once the debug frame serve file is in Vdubmod with the resize settings applied, how do I use HDEnc to encode that? It won't access Vdub's .vdr frameserve file. Niether will Cinema Craft, for that matter. What steps am I missing to get either of these mpeg2 compressors to work with the Vdub frameserver?

Just looking for some specific details on settings and configs, I've got 7 hours of HD to encode...

[Andy Nickless]

Well I've read various stories about the horrors of the EX1 - and the dreadful SD footage that people are getting, so I decided to do a test for myself before I get too far into my project.

I took some "iffy" clips and some really pin-sharp clips and whacked them onto a FCP timeline- about a minute or so in total.

I exported as QT movie, current settings, self contained.

I made sure DVDSP was fully set up for SD 16:9 in preferences, imported that (HD) QT into DVDSP and burned.

Then I watched on TV. . .

Superb SD footage.

Of course, the "iffy" (slightly out of focus) clips were slightly out of focus and the rest was first rate STANDARD DEFINITION.