sd dvd from ex1 : horrible

Dennis Schmitz · March 13th, 2008, 12:52 PM

Try downconverting with VirtualDubMod and Smartresize plugin.
(here's a test vid: http://rapidshare.com/files/98564166...Hcenc.m2v.html)
Best software solution so far.

regards Dennis

David Hadden · March 13th, 2008, 12:52 PM

Are any of you guys having trouble with downrezzing HD to SD DVD's using Vegas set to Best? or is this a strictly an Adobe and Final Cut issue?

Thanks for the input.

Dave

Dennis Schmitz · March 13th, 2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Sykes

Dennis, thank you for you advice. I currently have Adobe Premier Pro CS3 which doesn't import the HQ files. If I've understood you correctly Virtualdub can resize the orginal HQ files to avi at SD resoltion avi 720x540. Will I have to convert the mp4 wrapping to mpeg2 for Virtualdub to do this, if so how? I could then edit this avi in premier then export to DVD. At the moment I will be mainly producing SD dvds. Is this workflow going to produce the best high quality SD DVD? If I record using SP 1080i on the camera is it still worth going straight to Virtualdub then editing in AP or will it be worth importing through firewire then exporting to Virtualdub? I have not tried editing HDV in premier yet, does the rendering of transitions & application of effects loose quality, it this done in the same way on all NLE?

My camera has arrived today I would like to know the best step forward rather than spend days experimenting with different software! Vegas will edit straight from the HQ files, Premier wont, is my solution as simple as that?!

Stay in HDV.
Do the downcovertion at last.

regards Dennis

Jon Carlson · March 13th, 2008, 12:55 PM

Brian,

Have you downloaded any of the sample files I posted? I'm curious how the results would compare. Again, that footage comes from a variety of sources, and I don't think the EX1 footage scaled differently than the graphics, stills, etc.

I'm assuming you rendered from the timeline using Adobe Media Encoder, as well as testing the hardware output? How did the results compare?

What are you using to preview your content? Does it look bad on an SDTV, or only when scaled on to a large HD display? CRT? LCD? Plasma? Have you tried the Virtualdub solution described in this thread?

I hope to shoot some side-by-side comparisons between my EX1 and the JVC DV5000 it replaced (similar to the test you described) I'll see if I can upload footage for you to view. Any chance you could upload an .m2t file or something of your split screen for people to look at?

Andrew McMillan · March 13th, 2008, 01:03 PM

Jon Carles I am realy interested in that shoot out. I currently work with a Dsr 300,and I need more cameras right now so I am looking at some EX1's or Used Dsr's, but "my dsr390 on lcd looks better than my ex1 or fx1 downconvrt sd on lcd" is not very reasuring. Especialy sense I only deliver SD. So I'm stuck until your shoot out.

Dennis Schmitz · March 13th, 2008, 01:08 PM

Here is a download of virtualdubmod with some nice plugins included:

http://rapidshare.com/files/99285984...DubMod.7z.html

Unpack.
Open VirtualDubMod.exe
Drag'n'Drop your .m2v, .m2t, .avi (Canopus HQ, Cineform etc... everything is possible!) etc. on it.
Click "File> Load Processing settings"
Select a preset (from the attachement below) which is ok for you.

Save (you can choose a codec in video>compression before)

regards Dennis

Brian Cassar · March 13th, 2008, 01:22 PM

Jon, no I did not have a look at your sample files. I'll try and post an m2t file if I'm successful.

On a previous test (not a side by side comparision) I did use Adobe Media Encoder - the result was the worst I've ever seen for a HD to Sd conversion - worse than the hardware way.

As for viewing I burnt everything on a SD DVD and played it on a Philips 21" / Panasonic 21" / Panasonic 36" all CRT's and a Bravia W3000 40" LCD. The Bravia picture was a good laugh - my VHS recordings of 10 years ago on a CRT was x5 times better than the picture of both the DSR300 and the downconverted EX1. The CRT's were slightly better.

Andrew I suggest to go for other DSR's rather than the EX1. The quality of the DSR's is fantastic. Mine is the early 300 - I've heard that the 490's are incredible in quality - they are in fact 2/3" as opposed to my 1/2".

When one mentions VirtualDubMod - how is it used? Once I finish editing on CS3's timeline what happens then? How do you downconvert?

Dennis Schmitz · March 13th, 2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Cassar

When one mentions VirtualDubMod - how is it used? Once I finish editing on CS3's timeline what happens then? How do you downconvert?

I've already mentioned the workflow above your post. ;)
Have you seen the .m2v NTSC file I've uploaded?

regards Dennis

Brian Cassar · March 13th, 2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Schmitz

Try downconverting with VirtualDubMod and Smartresize plugin.
(here's a test vid: http://rapidshare.com/files/98564166...Hcenc.m2v.html)
Best software solution so far.

regards Dennis

Dennis, I've just seen the test vid - wow it's nowhere near what I've been doing - it is really good. Please can you kindly tell me step by step what are you doing. Please bear with me that apart from CS3 I have no idea of other editing programs. Thanks

Edit - I was still typing out this reply!. Thanks for the workflow

Dennis Schmitz · March 13th, 2008, 01:29 PM

what is your output of Adobe CS3?
Are you filming progressive, if not it will be much more complicated ;)

Edit: Ahh, ok :D

Bill Ravens · March 13th, 2008, 01:37 PM

I suggest that VirtualDubMod is about 2-3 years old and hasn't been updated by Avery lee to his latest configuration. The newest vesion of VirtualDub, v1.8.0, contains plugins for both wmv and mpeg files.

Brian Cassar · March 13th, 2008, 01:37 PM

I'm in Pal Area and use 1080 50i - is it a problem? If needs be I switch to 720 50p.

So once I have the edited footage in a HD timeline, do I export movie as one whole .avi sequence? When I drop this .avi movie to VirtualDubMod how long does it take to render?

David Hadden · March 13th, 2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Hadden

Are any of you guys having trouble with downrezzing HD to SD DVD's using Vegas set to Best? or is this a strictly an Adobe and Final Cut issue?

Thanks for the input.

Dave

Why no David, this is a Vegas problem too, but only if you don't use best.... wait... I don't know... I'm the same person who asked the question. :P

Anybody? Anybody?

Dave :)

Jon Carlson · March 13th, 2008, 03:15 PM

It seems like there are varying definitions of "acceptable" floating around... if you want to compare Vegas to Premiere to Virtualdub, I would suggesting posting an MPEG2 file for people to look at and compare.

As I don't have Vegas, that's the best I can do. :-)

David Hadden · March 13th, 2008, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Carlson

It seems like there are varying definitions of "acceptable" floating around... if you want to compare Vegas to Premiere to Virtualdub, I would suggesting posting an MPEG2 file for people to look at and compare.

As I don't have Vegas, that's the best I can do. :-)

Thanks Jon, I'm guessing since no-one posted that I can see in here that is using Vegas it's not been a big problem for them, though they might just not define it the same as others. I'll do just that with some footage that's been posted raw on the net, and ask others to do the same with the same footage ( in a new thread ) so that everyone can see from a common ground.

Dave

March 13th, 2008, 12:52 PM	#61
Dennis Schmitz Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Viersen, Germany Posts: 120	Try downconverting with VirtualDubMod and Smartresize plugin. (here's a test vid: http://rapidshare.com/files/98564166...Hcenc.m2v.html) Best software solution so far. regards Dennis

March 13th, 2008, 12:52 PM	#62
David Hadden Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fargo, ND Posts: 149	Are any of you guys having trouble with downrezzing HD to SD DVD's using Vegas set to Best? or is this a strictly an Adobe and Final Cut issue? Thanks for the input. Dave

March 13th, 2008, 12:55 PM	#64
Jon Carlson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Reading, PA USA Posts: 61	Brian, Have you downloaded any of the sample files I posted? I'm curious how the results would compare. Again, that footage comes from a variety of sources, and I don't think the EX1 footage scaled differently than the graphics, stills, etc. I'm assuming you rendered from the timeline using Adobe Media Encoder, as well as testing the hardware output? How did the results compare? What are you using to preview your content? Does it look bad on an SDTV, or only when scaled on to a large HD display? CRT? LCD? Plasma? Have you tried the Virtualdub solution described in this thread? I hope to shoot some side-by-side comparisons between my EX1 and the JVC DV5000 it replaced (similar to the test you described) I'll see if I can upload footage for you to view. Any chance you could upload an .m2t file or something of your split screen for people to look at?

March 13th, 2008, 01:03 PM	#65
Andrew McMillan Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Colombia Posts: 153	Jon Carles I am realy interested in that shoot out. I currently work with a Dsr 300,and I need more cameras right now so I am looking at some EX1's or Used Dsr's, but "my dsr390 on lcd looks better than my ex1 or fx1 downconvrt sd on lcd" is not very reasuring. Especialy sense I only deliver SD. So I'm stuck until your shoot out.

March 13th, 2008, 01:22 PM	#67
Brian Cassar Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Malta Posts: 306	Jon, no I did not have a look at your sample files. I'll try and post an m2t file if I'm successful. On a previous test (not a side by side comparision) I did use Adobe Media Encoder - the result was the worst I've ever seen for a HD to Sd conversion - worse than the hardware way. As for viewing I burnt everything on a SD DVD and played it on a Philips 21" / Panasonic 21" / Panasonic 36" all CRT's and a Bravia W3000 40" LCD. The Bravia picture was a good laugh - my VHS recordings of 10 years ago on a CRT was x5 times better than the picture of both the DSR300 and the downconverted EX1. The CRT's were slightly better. Andrew I suggest to go for other DSR's rather than the EX1. The quality of the DSR's is fantastic. Mine is the early 300 - I've heard that the 490's are incredible in quality - they are in fact 2/3" as opposed to my 1/2". When one mentions VirtualDubMod - how is it used? Once I finish editing on CS3's timeline what happens then? How do you downconvert?

March 13th, 2008, 01:29 PM	#70
Dennis Schmitz Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Viersen, Germany Posts: 120	what is your output of Adobe CS3? Are you filming progressive, if not it will be much more complicated ;) Edit: Ahh, ok :D

March 13th, 2008, 01:37 PM	#71
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I suggest that VirtualDubMod is about 2-3 years old and hasn't been updated by Avery lee to his latest configuration. The newest vesion of VirtualDub, v1.8.0, contains plugins for both wmv and mpeg files.

March 13th, 2008, 03:15 PM	#74
Jon Carlson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Reading, PA USA Posts: 61	It seems like there are varying definitions of "acceptable" floating around... if you want to compare Vegas to Premiere to Virtualdub, I would suggesting posting an MPEG2 file for people to look at and compare. As I don't have Vegas, that's the best I can do. :-)