PC Workflow for HD to SD with EX1

Keith Malone · March 5th, 2008, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Wright

Two things I've found helpful so far are

1. Select every clip and set Switches/Reduce Interlace flicker.
2. Make sure render is at Best quality

Results are reasonable but not quite perfect, yet, but other suggestions I've read are to add a fraction (maybe .002) of vertical gaussian blur and maybe a touch of median filter.

Regarding point 1, I think that it is a messy work around although it does seem to help.
Regarding point 2, adding effects to the timeline such as median really slow down the render time by a LARGE factor. I have also heard that adding an unsharp mask also helps. The only problem is that these tricks probably have their own side effects and I think it is terrible that we have to run an unsharp mask over HD footage in order to convert to SD!

I think that Sony need to come up with a solution in their next update that will downsize the footage with a greater degree of accuracy. It is possible. The resizing algorithm just needs to be revised. Sony please take note!!!

Maybe I should start a Sony Vegas 8.0c update wishlist in the Sony Vegas thread here!

Peter Wright · March 5th, 2008, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Malone

Regarding point 1, I think that it is a messy work around although it does seem to help.

Yes, as I said, it's not perfect - but what exactly do you mean by messy? It makes a considerable difference, even when viewing the resulting DVD on a CRT screen.

I agree - if Sony can come up with a straightforward way of doing this, I'm all ears.

Bill Ravens · March 5th, 2008, 08:00 AM

Sony Vegas has so many problems, right now, I doubt they care. VirtualDub has several mathematical approaches to resizing, including Lanczos. It just can't be beat.

Keith Malone · March 5th, 2008, 08:02 AM

Perhaps a poor choice of words on my part but what I meant by "messy" is that we shouldn't need to select every clip and reduce interlace flicker. Fine if it works, and I know it does. My point is that it becomes a pain in the rear end having to include this step in our work flow. We are both in agreement that Sony needs to sort this problem out directly at the rendering stage.

Keith Malone · March 5th, 2008, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

Sony Vegas has so many problems, right now, I doubt they care. VirtualDub has several mathematical approaches to resizing, including Lanczos. It just can't be beat.

Hi Bill, how do you output your edited project from Vegas into VirtualDub? Do you use uncompressed AVI? I would like to try your workflow to see how I get on.

Bill Ravens · March 5th, 2008, 08:15 AM

Keith..

First of all, I'm so disgusted with VEGAS, I avoid using it whenever possible, which is almost always. After Vegas v8b, EDIUS is a real joy to use and edit in.

Second, It's very rare for me to go straight from my captured clips to DVD output. Usually, I have cuts, blends, color grading, etc. to do and generate 1 or two intermediate renders before I go to DVD. I routinely use a high quality intermediate for these steps, as well as to go to VirtualDub. Cineform, Canopus HQ, or one of the lossless codecs like Huffy or PicVideo make good intermediates. ALways stay in your full HD resolution until you resize in VirtualDub. Take a lot of care to not go interlaced when you start in progressive. It happens easily. And read the VirtualDub help file to figure out what resize algorithm to use for your scene.

Dennis Schmitz · March 5th, 2008, 08:26 AM

Bill:
Is there any trial of Edius (Broadcast or Pro) 4.6?
I only see an Edius NEO Trial, but it doesn't support FullHD :(

regards Dennis

Bill Ravens · March 5th, 2008, 08:35 AM

Unfortunately, no.
I, initially, worked with the trial version of Edius Pro v4.5.
I believe that's all there is, right now.

The default setup is a bit different from Vegas workflow, but, it can be customized to conform to what you're used to.

http://www.canopus.com/products/EDIUSPro/index.php

Dennis Schmitz · March 5th, 2008, 08:38 AM

Thx, I'll try it. :)

regards Dennis

Dennis Schmitz · March 5th, 2008, 08:47 AM

eehm?
Doesn't Edius support FullHD @25p, too?
There's only 1440x1080 25p or 1920x1080 50i

regards Dennis

Bill Ravens · March 5th, 2008, 08:55 AM

yes, it does....but, unfortunately not in the trial version....stupid, but, thats what they do.
edit: there's no 1920x1080 30/60 progressive. Only HD 24fps progressive. Seems odd they don't have HD 25fps progressive.
I asked customer support about this. They are working on it.

Dennis Schmitz · March 5th, 2008, 09:11 AM

HEHE, nice
Realtime Motionblur!

I'm impressed.

Bill Ravens · March 5th, 2008, 09:19 AM

they say all their FX are realtime....it IS nice.
took me a while to figure out that if it doesn't playback realtime, you can hit the "render" command and edius will pre-render the timeline.

Check out the color curves FX. You edit in YUV space, which means you can adjust the Luma values without affecting the color space. YUV is native to input streams from HD cams. No color errors from converting to RGB and back.

March 5th, 2008, 08:00 AM	#18
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Sony Vegas has so many problems, right now, I doubt they care. VirtualDub has several mathematical approaches to resizing, including Lanczos. It just can't be beat.

March 5th, 2008, 08:02 AM	#19
Keith Malone Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ireland Posts: 63	Perhaps a poor choice of words on my part but what I meant by "messy" is that we shouldn't need to select every clip and reduce interlace flicker. Fine if it works, and I know it does. My point is that it becomes a pain in the rear end having to include this step in our work flow. We are both in agreement that Sony needs to sort this problem out directly at the rendering stage.

March 5th, 2008, 08:15 AM	#21
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Keith.. First of all, I'm so disgusted with VEGAS, I avoid using it whenever possible, which is almost always. After Vegas v8b, EDIUS is a real joy to use and edit in. Second, It's very rare for me to go straight from my captured clips to DVD output. Usually, I have cuts, blends, color grading, etc. to do and generate 1 or two intermediate renders before I go to DVD. I routinely use a high quality intermediate for these steps, as well as to go to VirtualDub. Cineform, Canopus HQ, or one of the lossless codecs like Huffy or PicVideo make good intermediates. ALways stay in your full HD resolution until you resize in VirtualDub. Take a lot of care to not go interlaced when you start in progressive. It happens easily. And read the VirtualDub help file to figure out what resize algorithm to use for your scene.

March 5th, 2008, 08:26 AM	#22
Dennis Schmitz Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Viersen, Germany Posts: 120	Bill: Is there any trial of Edius (Broadcast or Pro) 4.6? I only see an Edius NEO Trial, but it doesn't support FullHD :( regards Dennis

March 5th, 2008, 08:35 AM	#23
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Unfortunately, no. I, initially, worked with the trial version of Edius Pro v4.5. I believe that's all there is, right now. The default setup is a bit different from Vegas workflow, but, it can be customized to conform to what you're used to. http://www.canopus.com/products/EDIUSPro/index.php

March 5th, 2008, 08:38 AM	#24
Dennis Schmitz Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Viersen, Germany Posts: 120	Thx, I'll try it. :) regards Dennis

March 5th, 2008, 08:47 AM	#25
Dennis Schmitz Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Viersen, Germany Posts: 120	eehm? Doesn't Edius support FullHD @25p, too? There's only 1440x1080 25p or 1920x1080 50i regards Dennis

March 5th, 2008, 08:55 AM	#26
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	yes, it does....but, unfortunately not in the trial version....stupid, but, thats what they do. edit: there's no 1920x1080 30/60 progressive. Only HD 24fps progressive. Seems odd they don't have HD 25fps progressive. I asked customer support about this. They are working on it.

March 5th, 2008, 09:11 AM	#27
Dennis Schmitz Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Viersen, Germany Posts: 120	HEHE, nice Realtime Motionblur! I'm impressed.

March 5th, 2008, 09:19 AM	#28
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	they say all their FX are realtime....it IS nice. took me a while to figure out that if it doesn't playback realtime, you can hit the "render" command and edius will pre-render the timeline. Check out the color curves FX. You edit in YUV space, which means you can adjust the Luma values without affecting the color space. YUV is native to input streams from HD cams. No color errors from converting to RGB and back.