Image Advice at DVinfo.net

Benjamin Eckstein · February 29th, 2008, 12:44 AM

Here is a frame grab from Las Vegas, where I am visiting for a shoot. Does this image look right? I mean.....seriously......does the EX-1 do this justice?

http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=855&c=2

Paul Dhadialla · February 29th, 2008, 01:00 AM

Benjamin, the image looks slightly blurry to me (maybe camera shake, auto focus on (don't recommend it), shutter speed to slow, or simply detail/crispness settings need some fine tuning.

I downloaded the 1920x1080 and viewing in photoshop on a cinema display.

There is also the slight possiblity that backfocus is off

It's not that severe - whatever it is - it looks about 15% off what i'm used to seeing

It could be the JPEG artifacts.

What is your gain setting, focus (auto/manual), and what framerate and shuttter?

Do you have a TIFF

Exposure looks ok to me

Paul

Michael H. Stevens · February 29th, 2008, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Eckstein

Here is a frame grab from Las Vegas, where I am visiting for a shoot. Does this image look right? I mean.....seriously......does the EX-1 do this justice?

http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=855&c=2

No. No. Seriously out of focus.

Dean Sensui · February 29th, 2008, 02:45 AM

Was the aperature at f16?

I had a shot that was terribly soft when the lens was stopped down to f16. I hadn't seen anything like that with any other lens. Now it's just something to be aware of.

Dennis Schmitz · February 29th, 2008, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Sensui

Was the aperature at f16?

I had a shot that was terribly soft when the lens was stopped down to f16. I hadn't seen anything like that with any other lens. Now it's just something to be aware of.

SAME thought...

Michael Mann · February 29th, 2008, 03:04 AM

If this is what we get when stopping down to F16 then F16 would be unusable. Hope this is "only" an out of focus shot.

Dennis Schmitz · February 29th, 2008, 03:08 AM

F16 is unusable - but not only on this cam!
The picture looks already soft at F11.

Don't use it. Better use some additional ND-Filters or faster shutter.

regards Dennis

Ola Christoffersson · February 29th, 2008, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Schmitz

F16 is unusable - but not only on this cam!
The picture looks already soft at F11.

Don't use it. Better use some additional ND-Filters or faster shutter.

regards Dennis

Yep - seen the same on my cam. And I remember that it was really important to use the right ND-filters on my old PD150 to avoid soft images on bright sunny days.

Michael Mann · February 29th, 2008, 03:23 AM

Hhhm, I hoped that the much better lens of the EX1 would show less softness even when stopped down. A good DSLR zoom lens (e.g. Nikon 18-200) does not get that soft at F11 or F16. Can anyone explain?

Piotr Wozniacki · February 29th, 2008, 03:52 AM

Unfortunately, this is true about all cameras in this price range; the diffraction softness could be seen with F8 and up with my V1E - with EX1, F11 is the smallest usable aperture, I'd say (but it's better to stay around 5.6 as the best compromise).

PS: Benjamin, I bet lots of beer you were not kidding when first posting the picture; there is NO motion brur but diffraction softness at its best in it :)

Michael Mann · February 29th, 2008, 04:16 AM

You're right, Piotr.
But I'd really like to understand (from a technical point of view) why this is obviously different for photo lenses, which sure get softer due to diffraction when stopped down, but much less than camcorder lenses, even professional ones. Any ideas?

John Hedgecoe · February 29th, 2008, 08:07 AM

Camera lenses DO exhibit the same softness when stopped down. It is not advisable to use DSLR lenses below about f11 or maybe f13. It is softness due to diffraction as light passes through the very small opening in the iris.

This link explains it better than I can... http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...hotography.htm

Benjamin Eckstein · February 29th, 2008, 08:35 AM

Holy crap, I did NOT think you guys were going to take me seriously. I guess it is hard to post a cyber joke. I was in the car and laughed out loud when we drove by the Sexpresso (this was my first time to Vegas so I wasn't so used to all the blatant sex stuff). Anyways I grabbed the cam out of my bag in the back seat as we drove through the parking lot and I shot this out of the car.

I am sure the image was crap, but people get so serious here I just wanted to post a funny picture or the "Hottest Coffee in Vegas".

BTW, I am thinking of buying a a franchise for the Boston area. Good idea?

Marty Hudzik · February 29th, 2008, 08:45 AM

This is what happens when you get a bunch of camera geeks together. You could show us a room full of beautiful naked super models and we would be busy talking about the resolution or the lack of CA on the edges. Sometimes you have to knock us over the head to realize there is actual content in the images we are looking at. Sorry we missed the joke.

However just about all the technical talk seemed right on. I have messed up a few times with my XLH1 and shot with auto exposure on and no ND Filters. In the EVF it looks fine but then later you see it and realize that f16 really softens everything.

Peace.

Benjamin Eckstein · February 29th, 2008, 08:49 AM

FWIW, I am almost positive I had both NDs in as I had just been shooting outside before I got in the car, and I don't think I have had auto iris on since I got the camera, but shooting in about 5 seconds out of a moving car could probably account for some softness. You think?

Content people, content!!!!! I am trying to make people laugh.

Marty I may try posting naked shots next and see what happens.

February 29th, 2008, 12:44 AM	#1
Benjamin Eckstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 380 Images: 1	Image Advice Here is a frame grab from Las Vegas, where I am visiting for a shoot. Does this image look right? I mean.....seriously......does the EX-1 do this justice? http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=855&c=2

February 29th, 2008, 02:45 AM	#4
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	Was the aperature at f16? I had a shot that was terribly soft when the lens was stopped down to f16. I hadn't seen anything like that with any other lens. Now it's just something to be aware of. __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing

February 29th, 2008, 03:04 AM	#6
Michael Mann Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kelkheim, Germany Posts: 375	If this is what we get when stopping down to F16 then F16 would be unusable. Hope this is "only" an out of focus shot. __________________ Michael

February 29th, 2008, 03:23 AM	#9
Michael Mann Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kelkheim, Germany Posts: 375	Hhhm, I hoped that the much better lens of the EX1 would show less softness even when stopped down. A good DSLR zoom lens (e.g. Nikon 18-200) does not get that soft at F11 or F16. Can anyone explain? __________________ Michael

February 29th, 2008, 03:52 AM	#10
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Unfortunately, this is true about all cameras in this price range; the diffraction softness could be seen with F8 and up with my V1E - with EX1, F11 is the smallest usable aperture, I'd say (but it's better to stay around 5.6 as the best compromise). PS: Benjamin, I bet lots of beer you were not kidding when first posting the picture; there is NO motion brur but diffraction softness at its best in it :) __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki; February 29th, 2008 at 09:58 AM. Reason: typos, damn my sticking keyboard!

February 29th, 2008, 01:00 AM	#2
Paul Dhadialla Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 143	Benjamin, the image looks slightly blurry to me (maybe camera shake, auto focus on (don't recommend it), shutter speed to slow, or simply detail/crispness settings need some fine tuning. I downloaded the 1920x1080 and viewing in photoshop on a cinema display. There is also the slight possiblity that backfocus is off It's not that severe - whatever it is - it looks about 15% off what i'm used to seeing It could be the JPEG artifacts. What is your gain setting, focus (auto/manual), and what framerate and shuttter? Do you have a TIFF Exposure looks ok to me Paul

February 29th, 2008, 03:08 AM	#7
Dennis Schmitz Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Viersen, Germany Posts: 120	F16 is unusable - but not only on this cam! The picture looks already soft at F11. Don't use it. Better use some additional ND-Filters or faster shutter. regards Dennis

February 29th, 2008, 04:16 AM	#11
Michael Mann Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kelkheim, Germany Posts: 375	You're right, Piotr. But I'd really like to understand (from a technical point of view) why this is obviously different for photo lenses, which sure get softer due to diffraction when stopped down, but much less than camcorder lenses, even professional ones. Any ideas? __________________ Michael

February 29th, 2008, 08:07 AM	#12
John Hedgecoe Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 146	Camera lenses DO exhibit the same softness when stopped down. It is not advisable to use DSLR lenses below about f11 or maybe f13. It is softness due to diffraction as light passes through the very small opening in the iris. This link explains it better than I can... http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...hotography.htm

February 29th, 2008, 08:35 AM	#13
Benjamin Eckstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 380 Images: 1	Nobody gets a joke Holy crap, I did NOT think you guys were going to take me seriously. I guess it is hard to post a cyber joke. I was in the car and laughed out loud when we drove by the Sexpresso (this was my first time to Vegas so I wasn't so used to all the blatant sex stuff). Anyways I grabbed the cam out of my bag in the back seat as we drove through the parking lot and I shot this out of the car. I am sure the image was crap, but people get so serious here I just wanted to post a funny picture or the "Hottest Coffee in Vegas". BTW, I am thinking of buying a a franchise for the Boston area. Good idea?

February 29th, 2008, 08:45 AM	#14
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	This is what happens when you get a bunch of camera geeks together. You could show us a room full of beautiful naked super models and we would be busy talking about the resolution or the lack of CA on the edges. Sometimes you have to knock us over the head to realize there is actual content in the images we are looking at. Sorry we missed the joke. However just about all the technical talk seemed right on. I have messed up a few times with my XLH1 and shot with auto exposure on and no ND Filters. In the EVF it looks fine but then later you see it and realize that f16 really softens everything. Peace.

February 29th, 2008, 08:49 AM	#15
Benjamin Eckstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 380 Images: 1	FWIW, I am almost positive I had both NDs in as I had just been shooting outside before I got in the car, and I don't think I have had auto iris on since I got the camera, but shooting in about 5 seconds out of a moving car could probably account for some softness. You think? Content people, content!!!!! I am trying to make people laugh. Marty I may try posting naked shots next and see what happens.