Audio pops from .mxf in Vegas Video 8.0

Paul Kellett · May 14th, 2008, 01:17 PM

Read the part about clip broswer,allowing your editing system to use clips straight from the cam.
I also read somewhere else about vegas getting an update, to do the same.

http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=174

Paul.

Brian Rhodes · May 14th, 2008, 01:28 PM

I recevied an email from BOB that contain a bug fix for SONY VEGAS Pro 8 to fix the Audio problem. I try it later today.

Gints Klimanis · May 14th, 2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kellett

Read the part about clip broswer,allowing your editing system to use clips straight from the cam.
I also read somewhere else about vegas getting an update, to do the same.

http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=174

Paul.

It's hard to tell what "will allow you to bring clips in to your edit system directly from the EX1 and EX3 camcorders" means. This implies that ClipBrowser2 will do the necessary conversions involving your own labor. If these files are indeed MPEG2 video with uncompressed audio, I would rather see the change in-camera so that transferred files are directly compatible.
ClipBrowser1 and 2 offer indirect conversion.

What is Sony doing with ClipBrowser? This sort of functionality should be in-camera.

Gints Klimanis · May 14th, 2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Rhodes

I recevied an email from BOB that contain a bug fix for SONY VEGAS Pro 8 to fix the Audio problem. I try it later today.

Please ask him about their plans to allow Sony Vegas to read EX1 MP4 files straight from the transfer from the camera.

Bob Grant · August 24th, 2008, 04:11 PM

Now I can repo this problem. Doesn't seem to be a clip browser problem or a Vegas problem as I can hear the clicks in the clip browser and in both the MXF and mp4 versions of the file in Ppro. The clicks only occur on the loudest and most complex sounds. A large low frequency component in the sound really brings it on e.g. pipe organ full tilt in the opening bars of a performance. Once the organ backs off a few stops and the orchestra starts up problem goes away. It comes back later when the organ takes the lead.

This is not clipping, checked waveforms. Recorded the same piece with the gain backed way down, same result. Occurs with both camera mic and external mics such as CS-1. SPL is well within mics capabilities and recording into R-4 no such problem with same section of score.

The clicks sound much like sample rate errors but that's hard to imagine, if that was the problem then it'd be level independant. Efforts to remove them using declick filters in SF or Audition require so much declicking as to do serious harm to the sound i.e. the audio is useless. Thankfully I can patch the offending few bars from recordings I made during rehearsals with my Edirol R-4. I'm lucky this time.

Roger Akers · August 24th, 2008, 05:41 PM

Bob,

I've recently encountered this problem. You can view the evolution of the thread here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdca...nsfer-ex3.html

If you need to fix your audio, a temporary solution is to download the NEO HD demo (I purchased it)and convert the clips. This was suggested to me and it works fine. Other benefits such as faster rendering and previewing are prevalent as well.

Until this is fixed I'm obviously not going to film in 720/60p if I need any sound.

Bob Grant · August 24th, 2008, 06:24 PM

Roger,
I was shooting in 50i SP. There may well be two problems, one in the camera and one in the Clip Browser.

Roger Akers · August 24th, 2008, 07:05 PM

I've not tested 50i. But if you try other modes (say 1080p) do you still get the crackle? It might be two different problems because the original mp4 on my end sounds fine. The mxf I render out sounds fine in everything except vegas. (such as VLC) It's quite difficult to figure out where the fault lies but I'm leaning toward software through my experience.

Brian Rhodes · August 24th, 2008, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Akers

I've not tested 50i. But if you try other modes (say 1080p) do you still get the crackle? It might be two different problems because the original mp4 on my end sounds fine. The mxf I render out sounds fine in everything except vegas. (such as VLC) It's quite difficult to figure out where the fault lies but I'm leaning toward software through my experience.

Roger did you try using clip browser 1.01 and the MXF patch for Sony vegas 8? I emailed it to you yesterday.

Roger Akers · August 24th, 2008, 11:37 PM

Thanks for the email Brian.

I'm going to test it out at the office tomorrow.

Ted OMalley · September 6th, 2008, 10:43 AM

So, sounds like there is no solution to this problem yet, is this correct? 720/60p is a real nice format for a lot of things as you have the option of smooth slow motion while maintaining audio (ideally!).

Ted OMalley · September 6th, 2008, 05:05 PM

I noticed while reading Sony's .pdf regarding HDcam workflow for Sony Vegas that 720/60p is not listed as one of the formats that can be imported with audio. It was left out. Here's the link: http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/f...Vegas8_FR3.pdf

and here is the excerpt from chapter 5:
5 – XDCAM EX
Key Workflow Features and Restrictions
• Support for 1080 50/60i, 24/25/30p
• XDCAM EX MP4 files must be rewrapped to MXF files in order to import them in to the
Vegas system. This does not change the MPEG2 Essence, i.e., video and audio, it only
changes the“container”.

You may also notice 720 missing here -- odd.

This ALMOST made me quit on this feature, thinking that getting any audio whatsoever was the glitch and that I shouldn't expect 60p to work at all. Except for one thing...

In the Vegas Pro 8.0 Release Notes, available here:
Sony Creative Software Inc. - Vegas Release Notes

It states in section 2.0 the following new fixes/changes for version 8.0b:

-Added support for 50p and 60p MXF formats created by XDCAM EX Voyager software.
-Fixed an issue in the MXF reader that could cause small audio gaps when rendering to some formats.

Does this indicate that Vegas 8.0b should be able to import MXF-wrapped 60p content?

Brian Rhodes · September 6th, 2008, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted OMalley

I noticed while reading Sony's .pdf regarding HDcam workflow for Sony Vegas that 720/60p is not listed as one of the formats that can be imported with audio. It was left out. Here's the link: http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/f...Vegas8_FR3.pdf

and here is the excerpt from chapter 5:
5 – XDCAM EX
Key Workflow Features and Restrictions
• Support for 1080 50/60i, 24/25/30p
• XDCAM EX MP4 files must be rewrapped to MXF files in order to import them in to the
Vegas system. This does not change the MPEG2 Essence, i.e., video and audio, it only
changes the“container”.

You may also notice 720 missing here -- odd.

This ALMOST made me quit on this feature, thinking that getting any audio whatsoever was the glitch and that I shouldn't expect 60p to work at all. Except for one thing...

In the Vegas Pro 8.0 Release Notes, available here:
Sony Creative Software Inc. - Vegas Release Notes

It states in section 2.0 the following new fixes/changes for version 8.0b:

-Added support for 50p and 60p MXF formats created by XDCAM EX Voyager software.
-Fixed an issue in the MXF reader that could cause small audio gaps when rendering to some formats.

Does this indicate that Vegas 8.0b should be able to import MXF-wrapped 60p content?

I have one of my cams in for service to fix paint issued etc. The service rep was able to recreate the problem. This was odd to me the tech, said they did not have Sony Vegas loaded on any of the computer that Final cut pro the most popular so thats what they used. I got him to download Vegas trial and recreate the problem, got a call back from the tech stated that it was nothing he could do ,the clip played fine in clip browser but he did hear the poping sound in Vegas 8b.. call Sony software division.. still waiting on an answer from them. Sony clip browser 1.01 and the MXF patch for Vegas is working for me now or Importing with Cineform Software. Hopefully Vegas 8c will fix these issues. Aslo when I created a help ticket for this problem about three weeks ago they said this was the first time hearing of this issue.

Ted OMalley · September 6th, 2008, 08:07 PM

Brian,

I have a backup of ClipBrowser 1.01 - where do you find the mxf patch?

Robert St-Onge · September 20th, 2008, 08:51 PM

I have an EX1 and I also have the audio problem in Sony Vegas Pro 8.0b when shooting at 720 60P.
I have installed the 8.0c version and now the problem is worst, no more usable audio, all I can hear are glitches.

I contacted Sony Vegas support, they sent me an mxfplug folder to replace the old one, but it doesn't work and Vegas crashes. So at this point I am waiting for a fix from Sony.

May 14th, 2008, 01:17 PM	#16
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	Read the part about clip broswer,allowing your editing system to use clips straight from the cam. I also read somewhere else about vegas getting an update, to do the same. http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=174 Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

September 6th, 2008, 10:43 AM	#26
Ted OMalley Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 596	So, sounds like there is no solution to this problem yet, is this correct? 720/60p is a real nice format for a lot of things as you have the option of smooth slow motion while maintaining audio (ideally!). __________________ Sony EX3, Vegas 9.0 64bit, Windows 7(64), Core i7, 12GB, RAID1 & 0, HotSwap SATA, 30" LCD(2560x1600)-GTX285 & 24" LCD(1360x768)-7800GT

September 6th, 2008, 05:05 PM	#27
Ted OMalley Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 596	I noticed while reading Sony's .pdf regarding HDcam workflow for Sony Vegas that 720/60p is not listed as one of the formats that can be imported with audio. It was left out. Here's the link: http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/f...Vegas8_FR3.pdf and here is the excerpt from chapter 5: 5 – XDCAM EX Key Workflow Features and Restrictions • Support for 1080 50/60i, 24/25/30p • XDCAM EX MP4 files must be rewrapped to MXF files in order to import them in to the Vegas system. This does not change the MPEG2 Essence, i.e., video and audio, it only changes the“container”. You may also notice 720 missing here -- odd. This ALMOST made me quit on this feature, thinking that getting any audio whatsoever was the glitch and that I shouldn't expect 60p to work at all. Except for one thing... In the Vegas Pro 8.0 Release Notes, available here: Sony Creative Software Inc. - Vegas Release Notes It states in section 2.0 the following new fixes/changes for version 8.0b: -Added support for 50p and 60p MXF formats created by XDCAM EX Voyager software. -Fixed an issue in the MXF reader that could cause small audio gaps when rendering to some formats. Does this indicate that Vegas 8.0b should be able to import MXF-wrapped 60p content? __________________ Sony EX3, Vegas 9.0 64bit, Windows 7(64), Core i7, 12GB, RAID1 & 0, HotSwap SATA, 30" LCD(2560x1600)-GTX285 & 24" LCD(1360x768)-7800GT

September 6th, 2008, 08:07 PM	#29
Ted OMalley Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 596	Brian, I have a backup of ClipBrowser 1.01 - where do you find the mxf patch? __________________ Sony EX3, Vegas 9.0 64bit, Windows 7(64), Core i7, 12GB, RAID1 & 0, HotSwap SATA, 30" LCD(2560x1600)-GTX285 & 24" LCD(1360x768)-7800GT

May 14th, 2008, 01:28 PM	#17
Brian Rhodes Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 753	I recevied an email from BOB that contain a bug fix for SONY VEGAS Pro 8 to fix the Audio problem. I try it later today.

August 24th, 2008, 04:11 PM	#20
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Now I can repo this problem. Doesn't seem to be a clip browser problem or a Vegas problem as I can hear the clicks in the clip browser and in both the MXF and mp4 versions of the file in Ppro. The clicks only occur on the loudest and most complex sounds. A large low frequency component in the sound really brings it on e.g. pipe organ full tilt in the opening bars of a performance. Once the organ backs off a few stops and the orchestra starts up problem goes away. It comes back later when the organ takes the lead. This is not clipping, checked waveforms. Recorded the same piece with the gain backed way down, same result. Occurs with both camera mic and external mics such as CS-1. SPL is well within mics capabilities and recording into R-4 no such problem with same section of score. The clicks sound much like sample rate errors but that's hard to imagine, if that was the problem then it'd be level independant. Efforts to remove them using declick filters in SF or Audition require so much declicking as to do serious harm to the sound i.e. the audio is useless. Thankfully I can patch the offending few bars from recordings I made during rehearsals with my Edirol R-4. I'm lucky this time.

August 24th, 2008, 05:41 PM	#21
Roger Akers Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 103	Bob, I've recently encountered this problem. You can view the evolution of the thread here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdca...nsfer-ex3.html If you need to fix your audio, a temporary solution is to download the NEO HD demo (I purchased it)and convert the clips. This was suggested to me and it works fine. Other benefits such as faster rendering and previewing are prevalent as well. Until this is fixed I'm obviously not going to film in 720/60p if I need any sound.

August 24th, 2008, 06:24 PM	#22
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Roger, I was shooting in 50i SP. There may well be two problems, one in the camera and one in the Clip Browser.

August 24th, 2008, 07:05 PM	#23
Roger Akers Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 103	I've not tested 50i. But if you try other modes (say 1080p) do you still get the crackle? It might be two different problems because the original mp4 on my end sounds fine. The mxf I render out sounds fine in everything except vegas. (such as VLC) It's quite difficult to figure out where the fault lies but I'm leaning toward software through my experience.

August 24th, 2008, 11:37 PM	#25
Roger Akers Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 103	Thanks for the email Brian. I'm going to test it out at the office tomorrow.

September 20th, 2008, 08:51 PM	#30
Robert St-Onge Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mtl, CDN Posts: 77	I have an EX1 and I also have the audio problem in Sony Vegas Pro 8.0b when shooting at 720 60P. I have installed the 8.0c version and now the problem is worst, no more usable audio, all I can hear are glitches. I contacted Sony Vegas support, they sent me an mxfplug folder to replace the old one, but it doesn't work and Vegas crashes. So at this point I am waiting for a fix from Sony.