Problem importing 50i with Clock TC into FCP at DVinfo.net

Bob Grant · February 19th, 2008, 07:21 AM

I raised this issue in another thread but it was about a possibly different issue and therefore hasn't attracted much attention. My apologies for starting this over again but it could be a real problem, at least if you're using FCP. I certainly wouldn't have imagined what seems to be happening could happen.

No problems at all importing 50i HQ or SP into FCP, everything tested before the shoot. On the day of the shoot it was decided to switch the cameras into Clock TC for easier syncing as this was a multicam shoot. Makes sense to me.

Since the shoot none of the footage shot with TC = Clock can be imported into FCP. The transfer utility throws an error along the lines of "No timecode translator could be found" Same cards, same everything, the clips shot before the change in TC generation import fine. I can import all clips into Vegas through the usual mechanism. At first I thought the problem may be because the clips were split across cards however I've since discovered that niether split or unsplit clips can be imported.
This has been tried on two FCP systems with the same results. One is running the latest build of OSX, FCP and the Sony utilities. The other I'm not certain about the vintage of the OS or FCP.
Sony have promised to look at this in person. In the interim I felt it wise to warn that there could be a not obvious trap.
Secondly could I ask if any FCP user with an EX1 could verify this problem. It should be simple enough to repo. Change the TC to Clock in 50i, shoot a few seconds in HQ or SP and try to import the clip. If you can, phew, please tell me how you did it.
I know from the original thread there is a problem in 60i with DF/NDF and Clock. The issue with 50i appears much more significant.

Andy Mees · February 19th, 2008, 07:39 AM

Bob,

Sadly if I'm not mistaken this is the same issue and has been verified .... waiting on a promised update from Sony, but they are less than reliable in short order delivery of such updates. The closer one gets to NAB the more likely Sony will hold true to form and clamp down on anything and everything (even bug fixes) in order to bolster the number of things they can produce for their big showboat event. :-(

Such is life. Would be very happy to be very wrong.
Andy

Bob Grant · February 19th, 2008, 07:53 AM

Thanks Andy,
good to know at least we haven't done anything wrong.
I do have a backdoor out of this, get all the footage into Vegas 8 and render to QT. Then transfer that to a BIG HFS disk.

Craig Seeman · February 19th, 2008, 08:53 AM

As mentioned in the other thread relating to DF/NDF (obviously NTSC), I spoke to Sony Customer Service in San Jose, CA about this and they told me what they knew of about what Sony Japan was doing:

1) At this time Sony recommends avoiding Clock time altogether.

2) Sony is trying to determine whether the issue is with the camera or the Sony Transfer Tool.

3) Sony will have either a firmware (camera) or software (Transfer tool) update by the end of this month or early next month.

In NTSC Clock time code recorded at frame rates other than 24fps can be imported but are flagged as NDF in Quicktime and flagged and converted to NDF in Final Cut Pro. This I have tested and I am able to import clips although the time code changes.

Apparently people shooting at p24 (NTSC) also can't import Clock time clips (in which NDF is the correct flag). I haven't attempted this myself.

So apparently Clips at either 24 or 25 fps time base using Clock time can't import clips into FCP.

Sony said people should test with Vegas, Avid, Premiere, for example because it may help confirm whether it is a camera issue or a Sony Transfer Tool issue (Mac).

Bob Grant · February 19th, 2008, 09:06 AM

Thanks Craig,
well for what it's worth, yes, we can import it into Vegas 8.
How to get that snippet of information to Sony?

We can certainly pass that onto Sony AU however they're not to good at communicating to the other Sonys.

Craig Seeman · February 19th, 2008, 09:53 AM

Once in Vegas can you jog through and see if there's anything unusual about the time code?

In PAL it should be flagged as NDF and you should be able to jog 0-24. Try going passed a minute point other than a 10 minute mark for example (where NTSC frame would drop).

Once you get your results do call Sony AU and tell them about your Clock time issues on Mac but not Vegas (once you've confirmed that).

Keep in mind that the Clock issue does not necessarily prevent import so simply being able to import into Vegas doesn't mean it's not there.

I have no problem importing Clock when shooting 30p but jogging through the time code reveals the issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Grant

Thanks Craig,
well for what it's worth, yes, we can import it into Vegas 8.
How to get that snippet of information to Sony?

We can certainly pass that onto Sony AU however they're not to good at communicating to the other Sonys.

Bob Grant · February 19th, 2008, 10:27 AM

I played back around 10 mins of the clip on the T/L while doing something else but I'll run your tests just to make certain. The good / bad thing about Vegas is it doesn't care about TC. I had a tape a few years ago from a dodgy DV camera that lost TC around 50% of the time and Vegas didn't care at all.

Now that it looks like we might have to go down the Vegas path everything will get a thorough test. There's also the issue of stitching the split 'clocked' clips through the clip browser to test as well.

February 19th, 2008, 07:21 AM	#1
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Problem importing 50i with Clock TC into FCP I raised this issue in another thread but it was about a possibly different issue and therefore hasn't attracted much attention. My apologies for starting this over again but it could be a real problem, at least if you're using FCP. I certainly wouldn't have imagined what seems to be happening could happen. No problems at all importing 50i HQ or SP into FCP, everything tested before the shoot. On the day of the shoot it was decided to switch the cameras into Clock TC for easier syncing as this was a multicam shoot. Makes sense to me. Since the shoot none of the footage shot with TC = Clock can be imported into FCP. The transfer utility throws an error along the lines of "No timecode translator could be found" Same cards, same everything, the clips shot before the change in TC generation import fine. I can import all clips into Vegas through the usual mechanism. At first I thought the problem may be because the clips were split across cards however I've since discovered that niether split or unsplit clips can be imported. This has been tried on two FCP systems with the same results. One is running the latest build of OSX, FCP and the Sony utilities. The other I'm not certain about the vintage of the OS or FCP. Sony have promised to look at this in person. In the interim I felt it wise to warn that there could be a not obvious trap. Secondly could I ask if any FCP user with an EX1 could verify this problem. It should be simple enough to repo. Change the TC to Clock in 50i, shoot a few seconds in HQ or SP and try to import the clip. If you can, phew, please tell me how you did it. I know from the original thread there is a problem in 60i with DF/NDF and Clock. The issue with 50i appears much more significant.

February 19th, 2008, 07:39 AM	#2
Andy Mees Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 645	Bob, Sadly if I'm not mistaken this is the same issue and has been verified .... waiting on a promised update from Sony, but they are less than reliable in short order delivery of such updates. The closer one gets to NAB the more likely Sony will hold true to form and clamp down on anything and everything (even bug fixes) in order to bolster the number of things they can produce for their big showboat event. :-( Such is life. Would be very happy to be very wrong. Andy

February 19th, 2008, 07:53 AM	#3
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Thanks Andy, good to know at least we haven't done anything wrong. I do have a backdoor out of this, get all the footage into Vegas 8 and render to QT. Then transfer that to a BIG HFS disk.

February 19th, 2008, 08:53 AM	#4
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	As mentioned in the other thread relating to DF/NDF (obviously NTSC), I spoke to Sony Customer Service in San Jose, CA about this and they told me what they knew of about what Sony Japan was doing: 1) At this time Sony recommends avoiding Clock time altogether. 2) Sony is trying to determine whether the issue is with the camera or the Sony Transfer Tool. 3) Sony will have either a firmware (camera) or software (Transfer tool) update by the end of this month or early next month. In NTSC Clock time code recorded at frame rates other than 24fps can be imported but are flagged as NDF in Quicktime and flagged and converted to NDF in Final Cut Pro. This I have tested and I am able to import clips although the time code changes. Apparently people shooting at p24 (NTSC) also can't import Clock time clips (in which NDF is the correct flag). I haven't attempted this myself. So apparently Clips at either 24 or 25 fps time base using Clock time can't import clips into FCP. Sony said people should test with Vegas, Avid, Premiere, for example because it may help confirm whether it is a camera issue or a Sony Transfer Tool issue (Mac).

February 19th, 2008, 09:06 AM	#5
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Thanks Craig, well for what it's worth, yes, we can import it into Vegas 8. How to get that snippet of information to Sony? We can certainly pass that onto Sony AU however they're not to good at communicating to the other Sonys.

February 19th, 2008, 10:27 AM	#7
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	I played back around 10 mins of the clip on the T/L while doing something else but I'll run your tests just to make certain. The good / bad thing about Vegas is it doesn't care about TC. I had a tape a few years ago from a dodgy DV camera that lost TC around 50% of the time and Vegas didn't care at all. Now that it looks like we might have to go down the Vegas path everything will get a thorough test. There's also the issue of stitching the split 'clocked' clips through the clip browser to test as well.