Vegas Pro 8 Workflow at DVinfo.net

Randy Strome · February 16th, 2008, 09:10 AM

If possible, could someone here give a brief description of their Vegas workflow for the EX 1. A current thread regarding 8 bit to 32 bit coversion and colorspace conversions has brought me to the reality that I am just hacking away.

Thanks in advance,
Randy

Michael H. Stevens · February 16th, 2008, 10:22 AM

Yes Randy. It is so simple compared to capturing HDV from tape.

1. Put the SxS card into the express slot
2. Open clip browser
3. Select the clips you want
4. Hit Cntl G and you will be prompted for the directory where your want your media
5. Hit OK and close clip browser. Put SxS card back in camera so you don't forget it.
6. Open Vegas
7. Choose product settings to match what you shot. For best results choose 32 bit color processing
8. In scopes uncheck 7.5 IRE and Studio IRE even though for me I see no difference, Piotr says he does?

As an alternative for using a 10 bit codex which is recommended capture not with clip browser but with Cineform NEO-HD and convert not to .mxf but I think it uses avi if that's what you want.

Hope this was what you were looking for.

Michael

Piotr Wozniacki · February 16th, 2008, 10:38 AM

My only reservations about the list, Michael, apply to the last 2 points. Unless doing a lot of compositing where computational precision is important, I don't see any advantage in using 32bit mode all the way through the final render. If I want broader range and/or richer colours, I'd apply the Studio -> Computer RGB conversion.

But I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert here; in fact since the Vegas Pro 8.0 release there has been quite a confusion regarding the true 32bit advantages, and the workflow most suitable to use them - one thing is for sure: 32bit requires considerably longer render times.

Randy Strome · February 16th, 2008, 10:39 AM

Thanks Michael,

I am with you up to step 7. I have just been editing in 8 bit. Do I need to reconvert to 8 bit and a different colorspace at some point before export if 32 bit is chosen?

Randy Strome · February 16th, 2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

My only reservations about the list, Michael, apply to the last 2 points. Unless doing a lot of compositing where computational precision is important, I don't see any advantage in using 32bit mode all the way through the final render. If I want broader range and/or richer colours, I'd apply the Studio -> Computer RGB conversion.

What benefit are you noticing from Computer RGB? Are you reconverting prior to export?

Michael H. Stevens · February 16th, 2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

My only reservations about the list, Michael, apply to the last 2 points. Unless doing a lot of compositing where computational precision is important, I don't see any advantage in using 32bit mode all the way through the final render. If I want broader range and/or richer colours, I'd apply the Studio -> Computer RGB conversion.

But I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert here; in fact since the Vegas Pro 8.0 release there has been quite a confusion regarding the true 32bit advantages, and the workflow most suitable to use them - one thing is for sure: 32bit requires considerably longer render times.

Piotr: Please explain in detail what you mean by and how to do this conversion? Maybe you mean something different from me. I see nothing on this is the Vegas manual. I know what Glenn says but just how do you do this other than checking the scope boxes?

Piotr Wozniacki · February 16th, 2008, 10:52 AM

Michael,

The conversion is someting different to changing the scope settings! It's in fact a video FX; you can access it using Sony CC or Sony CC (Secondary), where - in the presets drop-down list - the two conversions are available (i.e. Computer RGB to Studio RGB, and vice versa).

Also, as an additional note, I have noticed that in my final "Render as" template I must choose explicitely PAL (or Component) as video space in the Advanced Video tab; otherwise the colours are flat in the rendered material (in many templates, Vegas uses NTSC as the default). Of course this is probably only important in the PAL area.

Randy Strome · February 17th, 2008, 11:19 AM

Hi guys,

Can you direct me to some good info on Studio to Computer RGB and 32 bit usage in Vegas.

The difference between 8 bit and 32 bit is so pronounced that my video looks unacceptable (washed out, overexposed, etc) in 8 bit and outstanding (great contrast, correct exposure) in 32 bit. How do I translate that 32 bit look into my final product.

The conversion to computer RGB appears to simply be a preset group of gain, saturation and offset adjustments.

Additionally, I would love to hear what render settings you are using for high quality web export.

I need some serious help in sorting out a decent workflow and in honesty feel quite lost.

Thanks,
Randy

Michael H. Stevens · February 17th, 2008, 01:02 PM

RANDY: In my renders the colors remain just as great as in preview. Maybe its the render settings? I do no color space conversion (And thanks to Piotr I now know what that is) and I am rendering to .m2t using the Main-Concepts HD 1920x1080x24p Vegas preset. Played from the PS3 to the monitor looks exactly the same as playing the time-line to the monitor. When I get the poor washed-out color is if I apply the Computer to Studio conversion so I don't do that.

Randy Strome · February 17th, 2008, 01:25 PM

Thanks Michael,

So if I understand you correctly, you are using the Studio to Computer RGB FX, but are not converting back to Studio RGB before export render. Is that right?

How about you Piotr?

Thanks again!

Michael H. Stevens · February 17th, 2008, 01:34 PM

NO. As I see it, when you import the mxf files from the clip browser they are already in Computer RGB. You can test this because if you apply a studio to computer RGB nothing happens, but if you apply a computer to studio RGB the colors wash out. So I NEVER MAKE A CONVERSION EITHER WAY EVER.

Randy Strome · February 17th, 2008, 01:40 PM

When I apply studio to computer RGB, I get an enourmous change. The picture goes from washed out to contrasty and vivid. Do you think this could be some kind of preset problem?

Sami Sanpakkila · February 17th, 2008, 02:44 PM

This is a very interesting topic here and something Ive been wondering how this stuff works. I dont understand much of it but I will show some examples here and ask questions if someone cares to elaborate.

So when I put mfx files to an 8bit timeline they look fine to me and as I expect them to be. When I change the project to 32bit whites get clipped and blacks get crushed. Totally opposite of what Randy sees.

When I apply studio to computer rgb to 8 bit whites get clipped and blacks get crushed as well.

So in 32 bit mode I have to do a computer to studio rgb conversion and the image looks right again.

So is this how you should do it? If you want to work in 32bit you have to apply the computer to studio rgb?

When the images look right you can see in the waveform monitor that
8bit goes up to 100% and 32 bit (with comp to studio rgb applied) goes to about 110%. What does this mean as the image looks the same in both modes?

Sami

Michael H. Stevens · February 17th, 2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Strome

When I apply studio to computer RGB, I get an enourmous change. The picture goes from washed out to contrasty and vivid. Do you think this could be some kind of preset problem?

Randy: Are you setting your project properties to 32bit and gamma 1 before you inport the files? Maybe this makes your capture look to be studio color space and not computer?

Sami: What you is saying is similar to what I have been reporting in my thread about how to cope with clipped histograms but maybe that was on the Vegas forum.

Raymond Schlogel · February 17th, 2008, 06:47 PM

Okay, so if you switch the pixel properties in the project from 8 bit to 32 bit floating point, are you matching the properties of the clip or are you changing the properties of the project?

In other words, is the added contrast that I see when I change it to 32 bit because that's the way it's "supposed" to look or is it making it that way?

- Ray

February 16th, 2008, 09:10 AM	#1
Randy Strome Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Haiku, HI Posts: 203 Images: 12	Vegas Pro 8 Workflow If possible, could someone here give a brief description of their Vegas workflow for the EX 1. A current thread regarding 8 bit to 32 bit coversion and colorspace conversions has brought me to the reality that I am just hacking away. Thanks in advance, Randy

February 16th, 2008, 10:38 AM	#3
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	My only reservations about the list, Michael, apply to the last 2 points. Unless doing a lot of compositing where computational precision is important, I don't see any advantage in using 32bit mode all the way through the final render. If I want broader range and/or richer colours, I'd apply the Studio -> Computer RGB conversion. But I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert here; in fact since the Vegas Pro 8.0 release there has been quite a confusion regarding the true 32bit advantages, and the workflow most suitable to use them - one thing is for sure: 32bit requires considerably longer render times. __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

February 16th, 2008, 10:52 AM	#7
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Michael, The conversion is someting different to changing the scope settings! It's in fact a video FX; you can access it using Sony CC or Sony CC (Secondary), where - in the presets drop-down list - the two conversions are available (i.e. Computer RGB to Studio RGB, and vice versa). Also, as an additional note, I have noticed that in my final "Render as" template I must choose explicitely PAL (or Component) as video space in the Advanced Video tab; otherwise the colours are flat in the rendered material (in many templates, Vegas uses NTSC as the default). Of course this is probably only important in the PAL area. __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

February 17th, 2008, 02:44 PM	#13
Sami Sanpakkila Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Finland Posts: 317	This is a very interesting topic here and something Ive been wondering how this stuff works. I dont understand much of it but I will show some examples here and ask questions if someone cares to elaborate. So when I put mfx files to an 8bit timeline they look fine to me and as I expect them to be. When I change the project to 32bit whites get clipped and blacks get crushed. Totally opposite of what Randy sees. When I apply studio to computer rgb to 8 bit whites get clipped and blacks get crushed as well. So in 32 bit mode I have to do a computer to studio rgb conversion and the image looks right again. So is this how you should do it? If you want to work in 32bit you have to apply the computer to studio rgb? When the images look right you can see in the waveform monitor that 8bit goes up to 100% and 32 bit (with comp to studio rgb applied) goes to about 110%. What does this mean as the image looks the same in both modes? Sami Attached Thumbnails

February 17th, 2008, 06:47 PM	#15
Raymond Schlogel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 162 Images: 3	Okay, so if you switch the pixel properties in the project from 8 bit to 32 bit floating point, are you matching the properties of the clip or are you changing the properties of the project? In other words, is the added contrast that I see when I change it to 32 bit because that's the way it's "supposed" to look or is it making it that way? - Ray __________________ www.undergroundplanet.com

February 16th, 2008, 10:22 AM	#2
Michael H. Stevens Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palm Desert, California Posts: 311	Yes Randy. It is so simple compared to capturing HDV from tape. 1. Put the SxS card into the express slot 2. Open clip browser 3. Select the clips you want 4. Hit Cntl G and you will be prompted for the directory where your want your media 5. Hit OK and close clip browser. Put SxS card back in camera so you don't forget it. 6. Open Vegas 7. Choose product settings to match what you shot. For best results choose 32 bit color processing 8. In scopes uncheck 7.5 IRE and Studio IRE even though for me I see no difference, Piotr says he does? As an alternative for using a 10 bit codex which is recommended capture not with clip browser but with Cineform NEO-HD and convert not to .mxf but I think it uses avi if that's what you want. Hope this was what you were looking for. Michael

February 16th, 2008, 10:39 AM	#4
Randy Strome Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Haiku, HI Posts: 203 Images: 12	Thanks Michael, I am with you up to step 7. I have just been editing in 8 bit. Do I need to reconvert to 8 bit and a different colorspace at some point before export if 32 bit is chosen?

February 17th, 2008, 11:19 AM	#8
Randy Strome Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Haiku, HI Posts: 203 Images: 12	Hi guys, Can you direct me to some good info on Studio to Computer RGB and 32 bit usage in Vegas. The difference between 8 bit and 32 bit is so pronounced that my video looks unacceptable (washed out, overexposed, etc) in 8 bit and outstanding (great contrast, correct exposure) in 32 bit. How do I translate that 32 bit look into my final product. The conversion to computer RGB appears to simply be a preset group of gain, saturation and offset adjustments. Additionally, I would love to hear what render settings you are using for high quality web export. I need some serious help in sorting out a decent workflow and in honesty feel quite lost. Thanks, Randy

February 17th, 2008, 01:02 PM	#9
Michael H. Stevens Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palm Desert, California Posts: 311	RANDY: In my renders the colors remain just as great as in preview. Maybe its the render settings? I do no color space conversion (And thanks to Piotr I now know what that is) and I am rendering to .m2t using the Main-Concepts HD 1920x1080x24p Vegas preset. Played from the PS3 to the monitor looks exactly the same as playing the time-line to the monitor. When I get the poor washed-out color is if I apply the Computer to Studio conversion so I don't do that.

February 17th, 2008, 01:25 PM	#10
Randy Strome Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Haiku, HI Posts: 203 Images: 12	Thanks Michael, So if I understand you correctly, you are using the Studio to Computer RGB FX, but are not converting back to Studio RGB before export render. Is that right? How about you Piotr? Thanks again!

February 17th, 2008, 01:34 PM	#11
Michael H. Stevens Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palm Desert, California Posts: 311	NO. As I see it, when you import the mxf files from the clip browser they are already in Computer RGB. You can test this because if you apply a studio to computer RGB nothing happens, but if you apply a computer to studio RGB the colors wash out. So I NEVER MAKE A CONVERSION EITHER WAY EVER.

February 17th, 2008, 01:40 PM	#12
Randy Strome Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Haiku, HI Posts: 203 Images: 12	When I apply studio to computer RGB, I get an enourmous change. The picture goes from washed out to contrasty and vivid. Do you think this could be some kind of preset problem?