EX-1 body only for 35mm prime lenses Sony's next model??? at DVinfo.net

Steve Kahn · February 10th, 2008, 01:57 PM

Just a naive question here but it seems that though the fujinon standard lens is great for broadcast TV...

It is not so for indie filmmakers who are bending over backwards to make 35mm adapters work. I want the pmw-ex1 but I don't care about servo zoom just great dof.

How long until Sony releases the ex1 body only???

Michael H. Stevens · February 10th, 2008, 02:34 PM

I think they would keep this for a more expensive camera with a 35mm sensor and do it right.

Steve Kahn · February 10th, 2008, 03:03 PM

Again this may be a naive viewpoint but th 3 1/2" cmos chips on the ex1 seem to give great latitude and low light capibilities - while not as good as the Red's 35mm sensor still pretty damn good IMHO.

With dps wasting time and money with the various lens adapters wouldn't it be smart (and save Sony the cost of their expensive lens) to offer a body only (and compete with the Red more directly right now???

(the 35mm sensor would be great - agreed - but many would love the 3x1/2"cmos model as well)

ymmv...

Anders Mildestveit · February 10th, 2008, 03:25 PM

35mm lenses directly on the 1/2" chips wouldn't work very well. It would give a very significant crop-factor.
But it would be cool to see a camera with some sort of built in special 35mm adapter. I don't see why that shouldn't be possible.

Steve Kahn · February 18th, 2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anders Mildestveit

35mm lenses directly on the 1/2" chips wouldn't work very well. It would give a very significant crop-factor.
But it would be cool to see a camera with some sort of built in special 35mm adapter. I don't see why that shouldn't be possible.

Maybe I'm not understanding something Anders (in fact, that is most likely the case)...

But don't the Letus, Brevis, and M2 all work well as adapters for 35mm prime lenses - and thus greater control over dof???

At the same time I don't wish to be a MacGyver with these adapters and for that matter have to deal with the difficulties inherent in using these systems.

Phil Bloom · February 18th, 2008, 02:31 PM

2 years before an ex1 without a lens like the z7 i would say.

when that happens you will be able to use a 1/3 " relay that will come out soon for cameras like the jvc hd line and canon xl line and of course the z7. wait if you want but it will be some time.

i use the ex1 and letus all the time and the lens is not a problem. in fact they work like a dream now.

Steve Kahn · February 18th, 2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

i use the ex1 and letus all the time and the lens is not a problem. in fact they work like a dream now.

Good to know Phil.

It scares me to complicate things and use these 35mm adapters - to spend hours setting them up then to get on a set and have to ditch the whole contraption because now it's not working or having silly problems because the Fujinon has been inadvertently thrown off - focus, zoom or f-stop.

Also, it seems so silly to buy this great camera with a great built on lens and then stick an adapter on to circumvent the Fuji and never use it again.

Finally, I've seen some home rigged 35mm adapters for the HV20 and video (check out Youtube). Ok... I know the HV20 is not even in the same league as the ex1 - but - the dof control is beautiful! And, just on footage shot alone looks much more film-ic than the standard ex1 even with its much smaller cmos chips.

Phil Bloom · February 18th, 2008, 03:20 PM

HI Steve

I have shot loads of stuff without adaptors on my ex1 and the image is superb. Go to my blog and look at the entry shooting without adaptors for a 2 minute news piece shot using it clean.

Also on my website is a short using the hv20/ letus combo and the image is amazing. But I can't agree with you saying it produces a more filmic image clean than the ex1. Especially if you are looking at youtube!

Bill Ravens · February 18th, 2008, 03:40 PM

Hey Phil...

Your work is so convincing...I ordered a Letus Extreme, yesterday. Thanx for having this stuff up to share, I think...;o)

Phil Bloom · February 18th, 2008, 03:48 PM

Bill

Santa Fe eh? What is it like?

I will be there on the 1st March for 3 nights (I arrive quite late I think after flying into LAX then getting a connecting flight). Shooting using your picture profiles you be pleased to know. Do you know director Vanessa Vasser?

What are your latest ones? Surprised by your -40 gamma, you still using that?

Am sure when you get an extreme you will have new ones. One for the LEX and one for without!

Glad my pics have helped you. Communities like this are the lifeblood and the inspiration for many people out there!

Steve Kahn · February 18th, 2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

HI Steve

I have shot loads of stuff without adaptors on my ex1 and the image is superb. Go to my blog and look at the entry shooting without adaptors for a 2 minute news piece shot using it clean.

Also on my website is a short using the hv20/ letus combo and the image is amazing. But I can't agree with you saying it produces a more filmic image clean than the ex1. Especially if you are looking at youtube!

Hi Phil,

Will take a look at your blog. FWIW, in the past I've seen some of your shots (don't know with or without the adapter) and they looked really great!

But as far as the HV20 is concerned, what I meant is that with a ghetto adapter people are shooting with amazing dof control! I guess dof may NOT be a function of chip size.? (I don't know but it doesn't look like that's the case). More amazing dof control than the ex1 in it's native lens state? I would guess so. And that's why I say it can produce more filmic images (with 35mm adapter and lens, that is)

Bennis Hahn · February 18th, 2008, 07:33 PM

You cannot just bolt a 35mm lens into a body only Ex. As said before, the crop factor would make all but the widest lenses almost unusable for everyday work.

DoF isn't determined by chip size. It is determined by focal length, f-stop, and distance to subject. In order to get the same field of view on a 1/2 chip compared to a 35mm frame you need to use very short focal length lenses. The shorter the focal length the more deep the DoF is.

Bill Ravens · February 18th, 2008, 09:07 PM

Phil...

No, I've abandoned the extreme GAMMA setting. I, now, shoot with black at -8 to -12, GAMMA at 0...it's a lot more forgiving. -40 was too aggressive. The original color matrix settings were very warm. I am now using some matrix settings a little more neutral, but, still more saturated than the factory Sony. The settings are posted on the Profile sticky. I've also played with a CINEMA setting ILO HISAT. Try this if you'd like:MATRIX: Phase:-29, R-G:31, R-B:48, G-R:-2, G-B:-32, B-R:-38, B-G:4. Black is set at -8. COLOR CORRECTION Target Phase at 274, Target width at 0, Level at 91 Phase at -18.

Santa Fe: many people find it much like some smaller european cities, spanish/moorish architectural style. Rural areas are very poor, but, also beautiful. March is a very variable month, weatherwise. The early morning and late afternoon light is breathtaking. Shadows and shapes are all enticing. You'll want to take footage. Sfe sits at the foot of a mountain range...very beautiful riding up to the ski area. Very historic place. Hope you're staying at a nice hotel, downtown has some very nice ones, "Hotel Santa Fe", "Inn of the Anasazi".

Steve Kahn · February 18th, 2008, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennis Hahn

You cannot just bolt a 35mm lens into a body only Ex. As said before, the crop factor would make all but the widest lenses almost unusable for everyday work.

Of course youe can't. But Sony could release a body only version with a built in optics which would correctly focus the light from any 35mm lens onto the cmos chips similar to the way a 35mm SLR camera works and can use ANY 35mm lens.

Phil Bloom · February 19th, 2008, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kahn

Hi Phil,

Will take a look at your blog. FWIW, in the past I've seen some of your shots (don't know with or without the adapter) and they looked really great!

But as far as the HV20 is concerned, what I meant is that with a ghetto adapter people are shooting with amazing dof control! I guess dof may NOT be a function of chip size.? (I don't know but it doesn't look like that's the case). More amazing dof control than the ex1 in it's native lens state? I would guess so. And that's why I say it can produce more filmic images (with 35mm adapter and lens, that is)

DOF control is directly linked to chip size. It is almost impossible to get decent shallow DOF out of any 1/3rd inch chip camera. Be in an HD200, HVX200 or HV20. You can achieve nice shallowish DOF with the EX1 as the image sensor is larger, not as good as a 2/3rd inch lens or a 35mm ground glass. With DOF adaptor all these cameras have the same DOF control

February 10th, 2008, 01:57 PM	#1
Steve Kahn Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Studio City, CA Posts: 37	EX-1 body only for 35mm prime lenses Sony's next model??? Just a naive question here but it seems that though the fujinon standard lens is great for broadcast TV... It is not so for indie filmmakers who are bending over backwards to make 35mm adapters work. I want the pmw-ex1 but I don't care about servo zoom just great dof. How long until Sony releases the ex1 body only???

February 18th, 2008, 02:31 PM	#6
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	2 years before an ex1 without a lens like the z7 i would say. when that happens you will be able to use a 1/3 " relay that will come out soon for cameras like the jvc hd line and canon xl line and of course the z7. wait if you want but it will be some time. i use the ex1 and letus all the time and the lens is not a problem. in fact they work like a dream now. __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

February 18th, 2008, 03:20 PM	#8
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	HI Steve I have shot loads of stuff without adaptors on my ex1 and the image is superb. Go to my blog and look at the entry shooting without adaptors for a 2 minute news piece shot using it clean. Also on my website is a short using the hv20/ letus combo and the image is amazing. But I can't agree with you saying it produces a more filmic image clean than the ex1. Especially if you are looking at youtube! __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

February 18th, 2008, 03:48 PM	#10
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	Bill Santa Fe eh? What is it like? I will be there on the 1st March for 3 nights (I arrive quite late I think after flying into LAX then getting a connecting flight). Shooting using your picture profiles you be pleased to know. Do you know director Vanessa Vasser? What are your latest ones? Surprised by your -40 gamma, you still using that? Am sure when you get an extreme you will have new ones. One for the LEX and one for without! Glad my pics have helped you. Communities like this are the lifeblood and the inspiration for many people out there! __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

February 18th, 2008, 09:07 PM	#13
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Phil... No, I've abandoned the extreme GAMMA setting. I, now, shoot with black at -8 to -12, GAMMA at 0...it's a lot more forgiving. -40 was too aggressive. The original color matrix settings were very warm. I am now using some matrix settings a little more neutral, but, still more saturated than the factory Sony. The settings are posted on the Profile sticky. I've also played with a CINEMA setting ILO HISAT. Try this if you'd like:MATRIX: Phase:-29, R-G:31, R-B:48, G-R:-2, G-B:-32, B-R:-38, B-G:4. Black is set at -8. COLOR CORRECTION Target Phase at 274, Target width at 0, Level at 91 Phase at -18. Santa Fe: many people find it much like some smaller european cities, spanish/moorish architectural style. Rural areas are very poor, but, also beautiful. March is a very variable month, weatherwise. The early morning and late afternoon light is breathtaking. Shadows and shapes are all enticing. You'll want to take footage. Sfe sits at the foot of a mountain range...very beautiful riding up to the ski area. Very historic place. Hope you're staying at a nice hotel, downtown has some very nice ones, "Hotel Santa Fe", "Inn of the Anasazi". Last edited by Bill Ravens; February 19th, 2008 at 09:59 AM.

February 10th, 2008, 02:34 PM	#2
Michael H. Stevens Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palm Desert, California Posts: 311	I think they would keep this for a more expensive camera with a 35mm sensor and do it right.

February 10th, 2008, 03:03 PM	#3
Steve Kahn Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Studio City, CA Posts: 37	Again this may be a naive viewpoint but th 3 1/2" cmos chips on the ex1 seem to give great latitude and low light capibilities - while not as good as the Red's 35mm sensor still pretty damn good IMHO. With dps wasting time and money with the various lens adapters wouldn't it be smart (and save Sony the cost of their expensive lens) to offer a body only (and compete with the Red more directly right now??? (the 35mm sensor would be great - agreed - but many would love the 3x1/2"cmos model as well) ymmv...

February 10th, 2008, 03:25 PM	#4
Anders Mildestveit New Boot Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Os Posts: 20	35mm lenses directly on the 1/2" chips wouldn't work very well. It would give a very significant crop-factor. But it would be cool to see a camera with some sort of built in special 35mm adapter. I don't see why that shouldn't be possible.

February 18th, 2008, 03:40 PM	#9
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Hey Phil... Your work is so convincing...I ordered a Letus Extreme, yesterday. Thanx for having this stuff up to share, I think...;o)

February 18th, 2008, 07:33 PM	#12
Bennis Hahn Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 221	You cannot just bolt a 35mm lens into a body only Ex. As said before, the crop factor would make all but the widest lenses almost unusable for everyday work. DoF isn't determined by chip size. It is determined by focal length, f-stop, and distance to subject. In order to get the same field of view on a 1/2 chip compared to a 35mm frame you need to use very short focal length lenses. The shorter the focal length the more deep the DoF is.