EX-1 body only for 35mm prime lenses Sony's next model???

Phil Bloom · February 19th, 2008, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kahn

Of course youe can't. But Sony could release a body only version with a built in optics which would correctly focus the light from any 35mm lens onto the cmos chips similar to the way a 35mm SLR camera works and can use ANY 35mm lens.

Sony will let you use their 35mm slr lenses on their Z7 with a crop factor of around X7. Pointless.

What you are suggesting will not affect DOF in the slightest. You aren't changing the sensor size and THAT is where the problem arises.

Ali Husain · February 19th, 2008, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

Sony will let you use their 35mm slr lenses on their Z7 with a crop factor of around X7. Pointless.

What you are suggesting will not affect DOF in the slightest. You aren't changing the sensor size and THAT is where the problem arises.

i think it's the optical target area not the sensor size that affects DOF. the sensor is recording a subarea of the optical target area. another possibility is that i have no idea what i'm talking about. :)

here's a discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_fa...ondary_effects

of course a crop factor of 7 is, as you said, pointless.

Steven Thomas · February 19th, 2008, 10:12 AM

I believe that's the same.

I know the RED camera going from 4K images down to 2K images gives you less shallow DOF using the same optics.

Alexander Ibrahim · February 20th, 2008, 12:41 PM

A lot of people are saying a lot of "true" things, but you don't seem to be talking about the same things at the same time- and thus confusing each other.

Depth of Field (DOF) is dependent on aperture, focal length, distance to subject and sensor size.

Thus with the right combination of the elements you can control you may acheive a very shallow DOF- but you may compromise your camera's performance envelope to accomplish this.

35mm adapters do offer shallower DOF.

They accomplish this by focusing the 35mm lens on a 35mm target, usually a ground glass element, thus making an image with the aspect and the DOF you'd expect in 35mm photography.

Then you focus your lens on the converters target, in essence taking a picture of a picture.

The trade off is that these adapters use up some light- how much varies from one system to another. The Letus 35 Extreme loses 1/2 stop.

In order for a camera with smaller sensors than a 35mm negative to get the same depth of field you have to use an arrangement like this.

Mostly it comes from after market adaptors strapped to the front of your camera's lens. Letus and Red Rock are two such companies.

There is nothing stopping a manufacturer from building such an arrangement into a camera and allowing users to have the option of lenses intended for different sensor sizes.

Getting to a camera like the RED. It has been noted that when shifting from 4K to 2K you get a longer DOF. This is because to accomplish 2K RED uses just the center of the Mysterium sensor.

In essence they change your sensor from a 35mm sized one to a 16mm sized one. In other words, by using just the center of the sensor, they effectively make your sensor smaller.

If you REALLY wanted 2K with 35mm DOF on the RED, then you'd have to get an optical converter for your 35mm lenses. That's why even for 2K post a lot of people shoot RED at 4K then downconvert to 2K in post.

Alexander Ibrahim · February 20th, 2008, 12:52 PM

In order to reply to the main topic here...

I don' think an EX series with 35mm lens mounts will happen.

We are far more likely to get a shoulder mounted EX series camera with CMOS sensors and SxS recording that competes with or replaces the existing XDCAM HD units at similar price points.

That means they'll have interchangeable ENG type 1/2" B4 lens mounts.

I also hope to see updated version of the XDCAM Professional Disc based units, with CCD's that manage the same tricks as the EX1's CMOS sensors.

Now, if that happens I expect that we'll see a proliferation of 35mm to 1/2" B4 lens converters offering 35mm DOF. Such beasts have been announced. They should be available this summer.

You also have to consider that Sony is expected to deliver an XDCAM HD 2/3" CCD camera recording 4:2:2 at 50Mbps. Using 2/3" broadcast HD lenses that gives you DOF performance similar to 16mm film photography.

Piotr Wozniacki · February 21st, 2008, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

Phil...

No, I've abandoned the extreme GAMMA setting. I, now, shoot with black at -8 to -12, GAMMA at 0...it's a lot more forgiving. -40 was too aggressive. The original color matrix settings were very warm. I am now using some matrix settings a little more neutral, but, still more saturated than the factory Sony. The settings are posted on the Profile sticky. I've also played with a CINEMA setting ILO HISAT. Try this if you'd like:MATRIX: Phase:-29, R-G:31, R-B:48, G-R:-2, G-B:-32, B-R:-38, B-G:4. Black is set at -8. COLOR CORRECTION Target Phase at 274, Target width at 0, Level at 91 Phase at -18.

Bill,

It just caught my eye you're using some color correction; in the context of our recent discussion in the presets thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....&postcount=163,

- have you succeded in boosting cyan at 274 deg, with gain at 91?

February 20th, 2008, 12:41 PM	#19
Alexander Ibrahim Major Player Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Washington D.C. Metro Area Posts: 384	Talking slightly past each other here A lot of people are saying a lot of "true" things, but you don't seem to be talking about the same things at the same time- and thus confusing each other. Depth of Field (DOF) is dependent on aperture, focal length, distance to subject and sensor size. Thus with the right combination of the elements you can control you may acheive a very shallow DOF- but you may compromise your camera's performance envelope to accomplish this. 35mm adapters do offer shallower DOF. They accomplish this by focusing the 35mm lens on a 35mm target, usually a ground glass element, thus making an image with the aspect and the DOF you'd expect in 35mm photography. Then you focus your lens on the converters target, in essence taking a picture of a picture. The trade off is that these adapters use up some light- how much varies from one system to another. The Letus 35 Extreme loses 1/2 stop. In order for a camera with smaller sensors than a 35mm negative to get the same depth of field you have to use an arrangement like this. Mostly it comes from after market adaptors strapped to the front of your camera's lens. Letus and Red Rock are two such companies. There is nothing stopping a manufacturer from building such an arrangement into a camera and allowing users to have the option of lenses intended for different sensor sizes. Getting to a camera like the RED. It has been noted that when shifting from 4K to 2K you get a longer DOF. This is because to accomplish 2K RED uses just the center of the Mysterium sensor. In essence they change your sensor from a 35mm sized one to a 16mm sized one. In other words, by using just the center of the sensor, they effectively make your sensor smaller. If you REALLY wanted 2K with 35mm DOF on the RED, then you'd have to get an optical converter for your 35mm lenses. That's why even for 2K post a lot of people shoot RED at 4K then downconvert to 2K in post. __________________ Alexander Ibrahim http://www.alexanderibrahim.net

February 20th, 2008, 12:52 PM	#20
Alexander Ibrahim Major Player Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Washington D.C. Metro Area Posts: 384	EX-1 Body only?? 1/2" B4 mounts if it happens In order to reply to the main topic here... I don' think an EX series with 35mm lens mounts will happen. We are far more likely to get a shoulder mounted EX series camera with CMOS sensors and SxS recording that competes with or replaces the existing XDCAM HD units at similar price points. That means they'll have interchangeable ENG type 1/2" B4 lens mounts. I also hope to see updated version of the XDCAM Professional Disc based units, with CCD's that manage the same tricks as the EX1's CMOS sensors. Now, if that happens I expect that we'll see a proliferation of 35mm to 1/2" B4 lens converters offering 35mm DOF. Such beasts have been announced. They should be available this summer. You also have to consider that Sony is expected to deliver an XDCAM HD 2/3" CCD camera recording 4:2:2 at 50Mbps. Using 2/3" broadcast HD lenses that gives you DOF performance similar to 16mm film photography. __________________ Alexander Ibrahim http://www.alexanderibrahim.net

February 19th, 2008, 10:12 AM	#18
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	I believe that's the same. I know the RED camera going from 4K images down to 2K images gives you less shallow DOF using the same optics.