low light and noise at DVinfo.net

Jack Davis · January 14th, 2008, 08:35 PM

this was my 1st experience with really low light and the ex1. Scene, pool with only pool lights, patio with only dim lights. Sky has gone from purple to black. Ex1 on no 0ND, iris 1.9, gain 6db, shutter (my bust) 1/60. Picture is great, but alot o noise. Help!!

Eric Pascarelli · January 14th, 2008, 08:37 PM

Check the bottom of the camera - make sure it's an EX1!

Steven Thomas · January 14th, 2008, 08:55 PM

I hear you there...
I was just looking at a graduate ceremony concert I shot at 0dB and it's some of the cleanest footage I've witnessed in these conditions, unreal!

I wish we had these on an earlier concert shoot with a couple JVC HD100 cameras, which actually looked good, just not as HD and clean as this.

And... I'm still a fan of the JVC HD series cam.

Daniel Alexander · January 14th, 2008, 09:03 PM

Steve, is there a huge difference between the low light capabilites between your ex1 and hd100? is the low light really as bad as people make out on those cams?

Paul Joy · January 14th, 2008, 09:21 PM

Can you upload a still?

I think 6db will produce some noise, but it's hard to say if the level your seeing is high or not without seeing it.

Paul.

Steven Thomas · January 14th, 2008, 09:37 PM

Daniel,
I'm a fan of the JVC HD100. I've used one for a couple years. It really takes some amazing sharp footage!

No, it's not as clean as the EX1, but it's noise is not that bad. When I ran it through Neat Video noise reduction, it really cleaned it up with minimal loss.

It's a pro camera for sure. The stock lens can have a bit to much CA when zooming in at wide apertures. Although, watching out for this, you can find a happy medium.

Jack Davis · January 15th, 2008, 11:27 AM

Is there a noise reduction software for FCP. Thanks

Justin Ferar · January 15th, 2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Davis

Is there a noise reduction software for FCP. Thanks

Noise usually shows up in the blacks. Use the 3 way CC and crush the blacks a little. This would be the quick and dirty way.

Steven Thomas · January 15th, 2008, 01:24 PM

EX1 Low light frame grab
1920x1080 24P
0dB

PP:

HiSat
Cine3
Detail at -15, Freq = +5

Laurence Kingston · January 15th, 2008, 02:44 PM

Wow! That looks so good!

Jon Carlson · January 15th, 2008, 03:13 PM

Yeah... "wow!" is right! Is there any processing on that shot other than the picture profile? I haven't taken my EX1 into that much of a low-light situation, but that is amazing.

Steven Thomas · January 15th, 2008, 03:18 PM

No processing at all.
Up in the sample clip area I posted a six second wmv file.

I'll post another just like it where there are some people using flash from their cameras and phones. Apparently the flash was not strong enough to cause partial exposure. I see no issue. Now, if the my camera was aimed at them, it might of been a different story.

Here's something else I'm finding interesting, the colors stay fairly saturated even under lower light. I know this has been pointed out before. It may have something to due with the hisat color matrix, but regardless, a lot of past cameras I've owned desaturated color wise more than this camera under these conditions.

Also, here's the real kicker. The LCD, focus, and peaking capabilities really make this camera easy to nail focus. Sure, I'm still a believer in having a large pro monitor on the set, but man you "almost" don't need it.

Bill Ravens · January 15th, 2008, 03:29 PM

Hey Steve...

Got my EX1 on order. Your low light footage looks absolutely fantastic. Think my HD110 will be my 'B' camera after this. Selling out of all my Canon equipment and not looking back. I was never a Sony fan, but the EX1 continues to make my jaw drop.

Steven Thomas · January 15th, 2008, 03:51 PM

I really think the EX1 is quite the camera.
Although, It does have some shortcomings.
The rolling shutter issue can be a problem. You need to plan a head to avoid this issue.

IMO, It's really a matter of weighting what's important for you, and how often you can live with a particular cameras faults. I need high rez, good image quality, and low noise 100% of the time, so the low percentage of rolling shutter artifacts, I can live with.

Some may feel just the opposite. If so, I understand. Rolling shutter errors are not pretty.

The problem is, writing positive things about certain cameras, some end up calling you a fanboy. ;) For sure, I'm not. I've mentioned this many times.

If something else comes along that I feel may work better for myself, I'll probably buy it.

Steven Thomas · January 15th, 2008, 03:55 PM

Bill, yes I know you and myself have been using the JVC cameras for a while.
I love those cameras!

Although, I must admit that once viewing the 1920x1080 24P footage in sequence to the HD100, there was a noticeable difference in image detail and noise. Also the 35mb XDCAM codec is really good.

But, again -- If there was a way you could have both, that might be great too. Those cameras are a joy to operate!

January 14th, 2008, 08:35 PM	#1
Jack Davis Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Wilmington, North Carolina Posts: 63	low light and noise this was my 1st experience with really low light and the ex1. Scene, pool with only pool lights, patio with only dim lights. Sky has gone from purple to black. Ex1 on no 0ND, iris 1.9, gain 6db, shutter (my bust) 1/60. Picture is great, but alot o noise. Help!!

January 14th, 2008, 08:55 PM	#3
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	I hear you there... I was just looking at a graduate ceremony concert I shot at 0dB and it's some of the cleanest footage I've witnessed in these conditions, unreal! I wish we had these on an earlier concert shoot with a couple JVC HD100 cameras, which actually looked good, just not as HD and clean as this. And... I'm still a fan of the JVC HD series cam. Last edited by Steven Thomas; January 14th, 2008 at 09:29 PM.

January 14th, 2008, 09:21 PM	#5
Paul Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 627	Can you upload a still? I think 6db will produce some noise, but it's hard to say if the level your seeing is high or not without seeing it. Paul. __________________ Blog: www.pauljoy.com Company: www.videotrader.co.uk

January 15th, 2008, 01:24 PM	#9
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	EX1 Low light frame grab EX1 Low light frame grab 1920x1080 24P 0dB PP: HiSat Cine3 Detail at -15, Freq = +5 Attached Thumbnails

January 14th, 2008, 08:37 PM	#2
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	Check the bottom of the camera - make sure it's an EX1!

January 14th, 2008, 09:03 PM	#4
Daniel Alexander Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: West Midlands, UK Posts: 320	Steve, is there a huge difference between the low light capabilites between your ex1 and hd100? is the low light really as bad as people make out on those cams?

January 14th, 2008, 09:37 PM	#6
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Daniel, I'm a fan of the JVC HD100. I've used one for a couple years. It really takes some amazing sharp footage! No, it's not as clean as the EX1, but it's noise is not that bad. When I ran it through Neat Video noise reduction, it really cleaned it up with minimal loss. It's a pro camera for sure. The stock lens can have a bit to much CA when zooming in at wide apertures. Although, watching out for this, you can find a happy medium.

January 15th, 2008, 11:27 AM	#7
Jack Davis Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Wilmington, North Carolina Posts: 63	Is there a noise reduction software for FCP. Thanks

January 15th, 2008, 02:44 PM	#10
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	Wow! That looks so good!

January 15th, 2008, 03:13 PM	#11
Jon Carlson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Reading, PA USA Posts: 61	Yeah... "wow!" is right! Is there any processing on that shot other than the picture profile? I haven't taken my EX1 into that much of a low-light situation, but that is amazing.

January 15th, 2008, 03:18 PM	#12
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	No processing at all. Up in the sample clip area I posted a six second wmv file. I'll post another just like it where there are some people using flash from their cameras and phones. Apparently the flash was not strong enough to cause partial exposure. I see no issue. Now, if the my camera was aimed at them, it might of been a different story. Here's something else I'm finding interesting, the colors stay fairly saturated even under lower light. I know this has been pointed out before. It may have something to due with the hisat color matrix, but regardless, a lot of past cameras I've owned desaturated color wise more than this camera under these conditions. Also, here's the real kicker. The LCD, focus, and peaking capabilities really make this camera easy to nail focus. Sure, I'm still a believer in having a large pro monitor on the set, but man you "almost" don't need it.

January 15th, 2008, 03:29 PM	#13
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Hey Steve... Got my EX1 on order. Your low light footage looks absolutely fantastic. Think my HD110 will be my 'B' camera after this. Selling out of all my Canon equipment and not looking back. I was never a Sony fan, but the EX1 continues to make my jaw drop.

January 15th, 2008, 03:51 PM	#14
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	I really think the EX1 is quite the camera. Although, It does have some shortcomings. The rolling shutter issue can be a problem. You need to plan a head to avoid this issue. IMO, It's really a matter of weighting what's important for you, and how often you can live with a particular cameras faults. I need high rez, good image quality, and low noise 100% of the time, so the low percentage of rolling shutter artifacts, I can live with. Some may feel just the opposite. If so, I understand. Rolling shutter errors are not pretty. The problem is, writing positive things about certain cameras, some end up calling you a fanboy. ;) For sure, I'm not. I've mentioned this many times. If something else comes along that I feel may work better for myself, I'll probably buy it.

January 15th, 2008, 03:55 PM	#15
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Bill, yes I know you and myself have been using the JVC cameras for a while. I love those cameras! Although, I must admit that once viewing the 1920x1080 24P footage in sequence to the HD100, there was a noticeable difference in image detail and noise. Also the 35mb XDCAM codec is really good. But, again -- If there was a way you could have both, that might be great too. Those cameras are a joy to operate!