PMW-EX1 SDI out "true" 10 bit at DVinfo.net

Steven Thomas · January 2nd, 2008, 11:21 AM

Barlow Elton mentioned he sent EX1 footage captured from SDI to
Sheer 10 bit original (FCP) to David Newman (Cineform).

David seems to think it's genuine 10 bit.

As Barlow mentioned, I'm inclined to believe him.

This is really good news!

James Huenergardt · January 2nd, 2008, 12:00 PM

Well, that is GREAT news, and it would back up what Juan Martinez of Sony told me at DV Expo West.

He said, "It's honest to goodness 10-bit".

Can't wait for "Solid" to come out. My EX1 will be here today!

Steven Thomas · January 2nd, 2008, 12:12 PM

Yes,
I'm praying that Cineform will come out with an SDI version soon.
Although, the last I heard was it will be after the HDMI version.
Between the Canon H1, Canon G1, and Sony EX1 users alone, Cineform will sell a LOT of the SDI versions! We would buy two or maybe three right off.

Having said that, I could use my BM HDLINK SDI>HDMI. BTW, they're only $399. But, this would mean the Cineform HDMI version would hopefully offer a +5VDC power tap. I'm not sure of the current demands of the HDLINK. I'm a bit worried it's high since it tends to get warm. Also, using the HDLINK means more stuff to carry around.

Congrats on the EX1!

Paul Curtis · January 2nd, 2008, 12:47 PM

That's great news.

Has anyone tried testing the overall dynamic range of the EX yet? And experimented with what settings to get the widest, lowest contrast range possible?

cheers
paul

Robert Ducon · January 31st, 2008, 02:38 PM

I'd love to see if this is verified - 10 bit is *very* important. I have my doubts because I've not seen this information anywhere else. (Then again, this is dvinfo - geniuses are always around.)

How did they test to see if the image is 10bit?

The way I'd do it would to be to take a still frame into photoshop (making sure it's a 16bit file - and not saved as an 8bit) then drop the brightness a few points, and see what level the black goes to. Hoping 1024 levels vs. 256.

Please, if there's proof, would LOVE to know.

Steven Thomas · January 31st, 2008, 02:56 PM

Well, I can't blame you for not believing, but I'm willing to believe David from Cineform ;)

Robert Ducon · January 31st, 2008, 03:14 PM

I've got a plan! I have a Decklink HD card with HD-SDI in - anyone care to lend me an EX 1?

I've seen, and been a part of other discussions in other threads with whether or not particular cameras with digital out where outputting 10 bit or 8 bit - they can get pretty long. ;)

Or, if I get my hands on one I'll check myself, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

In the meantime, an uploaded still frame would suffice.

Steven Thomas · January 31st, 2008, 03:21 PM

Yes, there's been no discussion lately since someone sent a file into Cineform and it's been confirmed by Sony's Juan Martinez product manager.

Robert Ducon · January 31st, 2008, 03:42 PM

Sounds great. It'll be wonderful to see 10 bit stills and as they roll in.

Sean Donnelly · January 31st, 2008, 06:28 PM

Juan Martinez is a very reliable source so I'm inclined to believe what he says. The fact that it's 60i only (no 23.98 psf) is the troubling part about it.

Robert Ducon · January 31st, 2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Donnelly

Juan Martinez is a very reliable source so I'm inclined to believe what he says.

Good to hear! I've never heard of him before, but you all believe him, so I'll tag along.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Donnelly

The fact that it's 60i only (no 23.98 psf) is the troubling part about it.

That's nothing new. I'm certain all (HD-)SDI is 60i, regardless of the sensor/frame rate. Just reverse telecine is post - I've done it with 24P over HD-SDI (in a 60i stream) on a Canon camera. 3:2 pulldown is a standard, and so is the workflow of removing the pulldown.

David Schmerin · February 1st, 2008, 11:34 AM

Has anyone heard anything about the new Flash XDR recorder coming from Convergent-Design this NAB? Supposedly this unit will be able record I-Frame only MPEG-2 in 4-2-2 at 160MBS from the HD-SDI out on the EX-1. The unit is supposed to list for $5k. The preliminary specs seem to suggest the format will be .MXF and that Apple is on board so perhaps by NAB we may see some real support for .mxf in FCP. That would make me very happy!

David Schmerin
www.gotfootagehd.com

My Ex1 samples can be seen at ftp://vegas:demo@download.gotfootage.com

Sean Donnelly · February 2nd, 2008, 12:59 PM

Robert that seems to be the case with cameras of this price level, however any high end system can send many different formats over HD-SDI, including 23.98.

Barry Green · February 2nd, 2008, 07:47 PM

The EX1's live head output is indeed 10 bit. The recorded image is 8-bit, which gets embedded in 10 bits upon playback.

You can verify it by hooking it up to a vectorscope; the recorded/played back footage is quite cross-hatch-y, whereas the live input is smoother.

Bill Ravens · February 2nd, 2008, 10:53 PM

what the h_ll is SOLID?
If this is A REFERENCE TO cINEFORMS hdmi RECORDER, i DON'T THINK cf HAS ACTUALLY NAMED IT YET.

January 2nd, 2008, 11:21 AM	#1
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	PMW-EX1 SDI out "true" 10 bit Barlow Elton mentioned he sent EX1 footage captured from SDI to Sheer 10 bit original (FCP) to David Newman (Cineform). David seems to think it's genuine 10 bit. As Barlow mentioned, I'm inclined to believe him. This is really good news!

January 2nd, 2008, 12:47 PM	#4
Paul Curtis Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canterbury Posts: 411	Dynamic Range too... That's great news. Has anyone tried testing the overall dynamic range of the EX yet? And experimented with what settings to get the widest, lowest contrast range possible? cheers paul

January 31st, 2008, 02:38 PM	#5
Robert Ducon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Victoria BC Posts: 400	I'd love to see if this is verified - 10 bit is very important. I have my doubts because I've not seen this information anywhere else. (Then again, this is dvinfo - geniuses are always around.) How did they test to see if the image is 10bit? The way I'd do it would to be to take a still frame into photoshop (making sure it's a 16bit file - and not saved as an 8bit) then drop the brightness a few points, and see what level the black goes to. Hoping 1024 levels vs. 256. Please, if there's proof, would LOVE to know. __________________ Mac + Canon HV20

January 31st, 2008, 03:14 PM	#7
Robert Ducon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Victoria BC Posts: 400	I've got a plan! I have a Decklink HD card with HD-SDI in - anyone care to lend me an EX 1? I've seen, and been a part of other discussions in other threads with whether or not particular cameras with digital out where outputting 10 bit or 8 bit - they can get pretty long. ;) Or, if I get my hands on one I'll check myself, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. In the meantime, an uploaded still frame would suffice. __________________ Mac + Canon HV20 Last edited by Robert Ducon; January 31st, 2008 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Grammar

January 31st, 2008, 03:42 PM	#9
Robert Ducon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Victoria BC Posts: 400	Sounds great. It'll be wonderful to see 10 bit stills and as they roll in. __________________ Mac + Canon HV20

January 2nd, 2008, 12:00 PM	#2
James Huenergardt Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Chehalis, WA Posts: 513	Well, that is GREAT news, and it would back up what Juan Martinez of Sony told me at DV Expo West. He said, "It's honest to goodness 10-bit". Can't wait for "Solid" to come out. My EX1 will be here today!

January 2nd, 2008, 12:12 PM	#3
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Yes, I'm praying that Cineform will come out with an SDI version soon. Although, the last I heard was it will be after the HDMI version. Between the Canon H1, Canon G1, and Sony EX1 users alone, Cineform will sell a LOT of the SDI versions! We would buy two or maybe three right off. Having said that, I could use my BM HDLINK SDI>HDMI. BTW, they're only $399. But, this would mean the Cineform HDMI version would hopefully offer a +5VDC power tap. I'm not sure of the current demands of the HDLINK. I'm a bit worried it's high since it tends to get warm. Also, using the HDLINK means more stuff to carry around. Congrats on the EX1!

January 31st, 2008, 02:56 PM	#6
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Well, I can't blame you for not believing, but I'm willing to believe David from Cineform ;)

January 31st, 2008, 03:21 PM	#8
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Yes, there's been no discussion lately since someone sent a file into Cineform and it's been confirmed by Sony's Juan Martinez product manager.

January 31st, 2008, 06:28 PM	#10
Sean Donnelly Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New York, NY Posts: 188	Juan Martinez is a very reliable source so I'm inclined to believe what he says. The fact that it's 60i only (no 23.98 psf) is the troubling part about it.

February 1st, 2008, 11:34 AM	#12
David Schmerin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 96	HD-SDI Recording Has anyone heard anything about the new Flash XDR recorder coming from Convergent-Design this NAB? Supposedly this unit will be able record I-Frame only MPEG-2 in 4-2-2 at 160MBS from the HD-SDI out on the EX-1. The unit is supposed to list for $5k. The preliminary specs seem to suggest the format will be .MXF and that Apple is on board so perhaps by NAB we may see some real support for .mxf in FCP. That would make me very happy! David Schmerin www.gotfootagehd.com My Ex1 samples can be seen at ftp://vegas:demo@download.gotfootage.com

February 2nd, 2008, 12:59 PM	#13
Sean Donnelly Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New York, NY Posts: 188	Robert that seems to be the case with cameras of this price level, however any high end system can send many different formats over HD-SDI, including 23.98.

February 2nd, 2008, 07:47 PM	#14
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The EX1's live head output is indeed 10 bit. The recorded image is 8-bit, which gets embedded in 10 bits upon playback. You can verify it by hooking it up to a vectorscope; the recorded/played back footage is quite cross-hatch-y, whereas the live input is smoother.

February 2nd, 2008, 10:53 PM	#15
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	what the h_ll is SOLID? If this is A REFERENCE TO cINEFORMS hdmi RECORDER, i DON'T THINK cf HAS ACTUALLY NAMED IT YET.