Brooklyn Botanic Gardens at DVinfo.net

Craig Seeman · December 30th, 2007, 01:05 PM

http://thirdplanetvideo.com/CineAlta.html
H.264 .mov 700x393 about 1500kbps

The first thing you'll notice is that I'm not of Phil Blooms caliber but may this video will show what a mere mortal, still learning camera stuff, can do.

Shot 1080p30 and nothing much else except for the brief time lapse.
Using an ancient Bogen tripod.

My own critique.

I've got to get a better handle on exposure. It's tough when I've faced with bright sky vs dark subject.

I badly need a new tripod.

I wish I could ramp into a zoom without having to use shot transition.

Tim Polster · December 30th, 2007, 02:21 PM

Thanks for sharing Craig.

This camera really outputs some nice images.

Shooting outside can really be tricky with exposure from light to dark.

Sometimes, auto iris can acutally be smoother in the right situation as it responds more quickly if you are in the middle of camera movement.

Alessandro Zumstein · December 30th, 2007, 05:01 PM

Sorry but personally i think this footage have not "great colors", maybe (i hope) are the setting in the camera wrong. But when not, i think this footage wil be have better colors when filmed with an HVX200.

I am sure you can produce pictures with better color with this camera

When you need a tripod, is the best solution the sachtler speedlock 75CF with the DV-6SB head

Christopher Barry · December 30th, 2007, 06:27 PM

Craig, did you use the Standard Gamma Curve or one of the Cine Gamma Curves (1-4)?

When my camera arrives, I will be testing these comparatively. The Standard curve may be more susceptible to blow out on the highlights, whereas the Cine curves, together with other internal tweaks (and perhaps some external ND grads), should allow for highlight protection, whilst preserving shadow detail on certain Cine presets.

The EX1 brochure shows only Cine 1-4 curves, whereas, the XDCam HD brochure for the 350 (extract below), shows Standard and Cine 1-4 Gamma Curves.

http://www.siliconcine.net/temp/XDCAM_Gamna_Curves.jpg

I am looking forward to seeing a comparative test, or doing my own in due course.

Craig Seeman · December 30th, 2007, 07:27 PM

This was standard PP Off. The colors you see are actually quite accurate for the circumstance. The water is murky and this was a dreary late December.

I'd love to start tweaking set ups but that would require that I plant myself someplace with wide latitude, bright colors, time to tweak. That time will come but not likely during a moderately cold December day.

In my past experience the Brooklyn Botanic Gardens chase people away with tripods so we had to be somewhat clandestine about the whole thing.

Christopher Barry · December 31st, 2007, 08:58 AM

Craig, your source HQ file must have plenty of detail in there for post grading? I had a play with your compressed and downsized footage in Premiere, and applying/tweaking with a Curves filter made a big difference. The HQ codec, I can't wait to exploit it. Thanks for sharing your footage.

Craig Seeman · December 31st, 2007, 09:22 AM

I haven't attempted grading yet. I wanted to show the camera recording itself. The encode, even encoded 1.5Mbps looses lots of detail. Tree branch details are lost in the long shots as well as in the water reflections.

I can probably push things quite a bit once I set up Picture Profiles. I'm using Final Cut Pro so I'd be using either it's 3 way color corrector or going into Apple's Color for grading.

Since in "normal" shooting circumstances I'd tried to avoid the blown highlights I got in some of these shots I'd set up PicProf for that and/or underexpose. The grading test for shots like that will be how much I can bring out the shadow detail after underexposing.

I really like having the live histogram because you can see whether you're taking advantage of the latitude of the camera.

BTW Happy New Year to you on the other side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher Barry

Craig, your source HQ file must have plenty of detail in there for post grading? I had a play with your compressed and downsized footage in Premiere, and applying/tweaking with a Curves filter made a big difference. The HQ codec, I can't wait to exploit it. Thanks for sharing your footage.

Christopher Barry · December 31st, 2007, 03:27 PM

Craig, thanks for the feedback and HNY wishes, back at you.

I forgot about the histgram feature, and can't wait to experiment with all that is under the EX1 hood.

David Schmerin · January 2nd, 2008, 11:34 AM

[QUOTE=Alessandro Zumstein;800179]Sorry but personally i think this footage have not "great colors", maybe (i hope) are the setting in the camera wrong. But when not, i think this footage wil be have better colors when filmed with an HVX200.

I am sure you can produce pictures with better color with this camera

First let me say thank you to Craig for posting the video and good job of it.

Now one of the big issues I am facing concerning color is the compression. Recently I went out on a real windy day here to film a giant flag. The colors on the flag itself were a bit faded and so not the best to start with.

Without any regard for the quality of the job I did shooting the flag, I took a 5 second segment of the video and rendered the clip out in ProRes422HQ, Photo-JPEG, and H.264.

When I rendered, all the settings were set to the best quality levels allowed (I.E. unrestricted data rates, quality levels to best, etc...) In every case, the colors were destroyed.

IMHO, H.264 produced the smallest file but the worst colors, Photo-JPEG 2nd, and ProRes the least damage.

I have posted the source clip as well as the there rendered files however you will need to be running FCP6 to see the source and the ProRes. ftp://vegas:demo@download.gotfootage.com

Thoughts?

David Schmerin
www.GotFootageHD.com

Alessandro Zumstein · January 2nd, 2008, 02:36 PM

Ok i have forgotten to thanks for this footage.
But i have not say that he can't create good footage. Camera "movement" and picture "composition" are really good. But the colors are not so beautiful.
This is not a problem of compression but a simple adjustment in the settings (gamma curve or picture profile).

I have see your videos in your website. Good footage!!!

Craig Seeman · January 2nd, 2008, 03:30 PM

Posted video shot the next day in another thread
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=111446

Alessandro maybe I should create a Picture Profile that pushes saturation. These videos do show what the camera does on a dull winter day with PP off though. To my eye the saturation looks very natural with PP off. The colors are as dull in this video as the appeared to me in person.

Steven Thomas · January 2nd, 2008, 04:11 PM

Yes,
IMO, and quite a few others, is to get your camera to produce the most accurate color as possible. This will allow a lot of freedom for color grading in post.
For those who like to do it in the camera, adjust the profiles to your hearts content. There's so much control you really can get a LOT of different looks.

I perfer not to do it this way. I might change my mind later on, so I want accurate color. Has anyone had a chance to calibrate for "true color" using a DSC Labs Chart as Paolo did for the JVC HD100?

December 30th, 2007, 01:05 PM	#1
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Brooklyn Botanic Gardens http://thirdplanetvideo.com/CineAlta.html H.264 .mov 700x393 about 1500kbps The first thing you'll notice is that I'm not of Phil Blooms caliber but may this video will show what a mere mortal, still learning camera stuff, can do. Shot 1080p30 and nothing much else except for the brief time lapse. Using an ancient Bogen tripod. My own critique. I've got to get a better handle on exposure. It's tough when I've faced with bright sky vs dark subject. I badly need a new tripod. I wish I could ramp into a zoom without having to use shot transition.

January 2nd, 2008, 11:34 AM	#9
David Schmerin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 96	Bad Colors [QUOTE=Alessandro Zumstein;800179]Sorry but personally i think this footage have not "great colors", maybe (i hope) are the setting in the camera wrong. But when not, i think this footage wil be have better colors when filmed with an HVX200. I am sure you can produce pictures with better color with this camera First let me say thank you to Craig for posting the video and good job of it. Now one of the big issues I am facing concerning color is the compression. Recently I went out on a real windy day here to film a giant flag. The colors on the flag itself were a bit faded and so not the best to start with. Without any regard for the quality of the job I did shooting the flag, I took a 5 second segment of the video and rendered the clip out in ProRes422HQ, Photo-JPEG, and H.264. When I rendered, all the settings were set to the best quality levels allowed (I.E. unrestricted data rates, quality levels to best, etc...) In every case, the colors were destroyed. IMHO, H.264 produced the smallest file but the worst colors, Photo-JPEG 2nd, and ProRes the least damage. I have posted the source clip as well as the there rendered files however you will need to be running FCP6 to see the source and the ProRes. ftp://vegas:demo@download.gotfootage.com Thoughts? David Schmerin www.GotFootageHD.com

January 2nd, 2008, 02:36 PM	#10
Alessandro Zumstein Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Switzerland Posts: 68	Sorry but.. Ok i have forgotten to thanks for this footage. But i have not say that he can't create good footage. Camera "movement" and picture "composition" are really good. But the colors are not so beautiful. This is not a problem of compression but a simple adjustment in the settings (gamma curve or picture profile). I have see your videos in your website. Good footage!!!

December 30th, 2007, 02:21 PM	#2
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Thanks for sharing Craig. This camera really outputs some nice images. Shooting outside can really be tricky with exposure from light to dark. Sometimes, auto iris can acutally be smoother in the right situation as it responds more quickly if you are in the middle of camera movement.

December 30th, 2007, 05:01 PM	#3
Alessandro Zumstein Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Switzerland Posts: 68	Sorry but personally i think this footage have not "great colors", maybe (i hope) are the setting in the camera wrong. But when not, i think this footage wil be have better colors when filmed with an HVX200. I am sure you can produce pictures with better color with this camera When you need a tripod, is the best solution the sachtler speedlock 75CF with the DV-6SB head

December 30th, 2007, 06:27 PM	#4
Christopher Barry Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 107	Craig, did you use the Standard Gamma Curve or one of the Cine Gamma Curves (1-4)? When my camera arrives, I will be testing these comparatively. The Standard curve may be more susceptible to blow out on the highlights, whereas the Cine curves, together with other internal tweaks (and perhaps some external ND grads), should allow for highlight protection, whilst preserving shadow detail on certain Cine presets. The EX1 brochure shows only Cine 1-4 curves, whereas, the XDCam HD brochure for the 350 (extract below), shows Standard and Cine 1-4 Gamma Curves. http://www.siliconcine.net/temp/XDCAM_Gamna_Curves.jpg I am looking forward to seeing a comparative test, or doing my own in due course.

December 30th, 2007, 07:27 PM	#5
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	This was standard PP Off. The colors you see are actually quite accurate for the circumstance. The water is murky and this was a dreary late December. I'd love to start tweaking set ups but that would require that I plant myself someplace with wide latitude, bright colors, time to tweak. That time will come but not likely during a moderately cold December day. In my past experience the Brooklyn Botanic Gardens chase people away with tripods so we had to be somewhat clandestine about the whole thing.

December 31st, 2007, 08:58 AM	#6
Christopher Barry Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 107	Craig, your source HQ file must have plenty of detail in there for post grading? I had a play with your compressed and downsized footage in Premiere, and applying/tweaking with a Curves filter made a big difference. The HQ codec, I can't wait to exploit it. Thanks for sharing your footage.

December 31st, 2007, 03:27 PM	#8
Christopher Barry Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 107	Craig, thanks for the feedback and HNY wishes, back at you. I forgot about the histgram feature, and can't wait to experiment with all that is under the EX1 hood.

January 2nd, 2008, 03:30 PM	#11
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Posted video shot the next day in another thread http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=111446 Alessandro maybe I should create a Picture Profile that pushes saturation. These videos do show what the camera does on a dull winter day with PP off though. To my eye the saturation looks very natural with PP off. The colors are as dull in this video as the appeared to me in person.

January 2nd, 2008, 04:11 PM	#12
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Yes, IMO, and quite a few others, is to get your camera to produce the most accurate color as possible. This will allow a lot of freedom for color grading in post. For those who like to do it in the camera, adjust the profiles to your hearts content. There's so much control you really can get a LOT of different looks. I perfer not to do it this way. I might change my mind later on, so I want accurate color. Has anyone had a chance to calibrate for "true color" using a DSC Labs Chart as Paolo did for the JVC HD100?