Opinions on V1U to PMW-EX1 (for sports) at DVinfo.net

Brendan Pyatt · December 30th, 2007, 10:34 AM

I currently use a V1U and a 1.5x extender.

I am thinking about getting an EX1. The only extender I can find is the to-be-released 1.6x extender from Schneider.

Range is important to me - I shoot surfing so can't get closer to my subject... but image quality is paramount and slow motion is also a priority. From what I understand the EX1 has better image quality and will produce better slo-mo but its zoom is shorter (12x) compared to the v1u (20x).

I am leaning towards the EX1 due to the better image quality.

What do you think?

I have just checked up on the zoom length of the EX1 and its only 12x - thats pretty short - shame!

Don Greening · December 30th, 2007, 11:37 AM

The zoom on the EX1 is 14x, not 12, so the extender you're considering will get you even closer to your surfers.

I could write a couple of paragraphs as to why the EX1 will be better than the V1U for your shooting needs. Probably the biggest advantage will be the increased exposure latitude of the EX1, meaning there will be more detail in the highlights and the shadows, which is a huge plus when working outside with large contrast differences.

- Don

Stu Holmes · December 30th, 2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan Pyatt

I have just checked up on the zoom length of the EX1 and its only 12x - thats pretty short - shame!

What actually matters is the max. telephoto focal length. the zoom "ratio" (10x or 12x or whatever) does not indicate, directly, any maximum telephoto focal length.

By memory (you can look up the stats to check) the EX1 max. wide is 31.4mm so with a 14x zoom, that gives about a 440mm max.tele.
The V1 is 37.4mm max wide and a 20x zoom gives about 748mm max. tele.

So basically the V1 has a tele about 1.7x more than the EX1. So yes, if you want an image of comparable size then you will need to get a tele attachment for the EX1.
- It would not surprise me greatly, though, that if you just did a digital crop in your editing package of EX1 footage, that may well give you what you need, while retaining sufficient quality to serve your purposes. Something to experiment with perhaps.

Brendan Pyatt · December 30th, 2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Greening

I could write a couple of paragraphs as to why the EX1 will be better than the V1U for your shooting needs. Probably the biggest advantage will be the increased exposure latitude of the EX1, meaning there will be more detail in the highlights and the shadows, which is a huge plus when working outside with large contrast differences.
- Don

Yes this is something I read about but didn't consider enough. Breaking waves (white water) but dark water in sunlight is a pretty wide exposure range!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Holmes

What actually matters is the max. telephoto focal length. the zoom "ratio" (10x or 12x or whatever) does not indicate, directly, any maximum telephoto focal length.

By memory (you can look up the stats to check) the EX1 max. wide is 31.4mm so with a 14x zoom, that gives about a 440mm max.tele.
The V1 is 37.4mm max wide and a 20x zoom gives about 748mm max. tele.

So basically the V1 has a tele about 1.7x more than the EX1. So yes, if you want an image of comparable size then you will need to get a tele attachment for the EX1.
- It would not surprise me greatly, though, that if you just did a digital crop in your editing package of EX1 footage, that may well give you what you need, while retaining sufficient quality to serve your purposes. Something to experiment with perhaps.

Yes of course - its not the zoom but the max focal length so I checked up (although i didn't need to as you a have pretty good memory!!):

EX1: 439mm V1U: 748mm (equiv to 35mm film)

Although most of my work will be ending up on normal dvds (not HD). I wonder how much imagine quality I will loose by cropping?
Really I would like a 2x not just a 1.6x extender.

About the EX1 and add on lenses (wide or tele). From what I read they need contacts to tell the cam they are there (to deal with CA etc)? Is not possible to use a screw on lens and set the amount of OIS manually in the menus? I beleive Schiender make a nice 2x screw on extender. The EX1 has a 77mm thread on the frount of it, doesn't it??

Herminio Cordido · December 30th, 2007, 02:23 PM

You can get a Letus Extreme and this lens ;)
H

Bill Spence · December 30th, 2007, 04:47 PM

Herm's got a point. You could always buy a 35mm adapter like the Letus Extreme or Brevis Flip, and then you could attach any camera lens to it that you own. Then you could get any lens that would fit your purposes, AND, you get to use that lens with your DSLR camera as well. Two birds with one stone.

Tim Polster · December 30th, 2007, 04:53 PM

That sounds like a long camera with all of the adaptors and tele lenses.

The use of a long lens for video without a servo motor might be tricky as well.

Brendan Pyatt · December 30th, 2007, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

That sounds like a long camera with all of the adaptors and tele lenses.

The use of a long lens for video without a servo motor might be tricky as well.

yep! Nice idea but with no autofocus, in sports, it's a non-starter.

Christopher Barry · December 30th, 2007, 05:28 PM

I put a 200-400mm lens on the adapter and discovered significant vignette and chromatic aberration issues, together with any bump and wobble is easily transferred through the rig, as it is long and heavy and much of the weight extends away from the pivot point on the tripod. Start thinking about getting a solid head. At 400mm, I was only achieving the same range as the camera lens. I strongly recommend testing/renting before anyone entertains the idea of using extremely long lenses with 35mm lenses adapters. btw, I understand that Herminio was kidding.

Kit Hannah · December 30th, 2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herminio Cordido

You can get a Letus Extreme and this lens ;)
H

That's one of the funniest things I have seen in a long time! Hilarious. Can you guys imaging the EX1 with a Letus and that Lens?! That would be one funky looking setup.

Giroud Francois · December 30th, 2007, 06:07 PM

so why go to the ex1, choose the Z7 that has removable lense or a XL1H that has very nice 1440 sensor.

Matt Buys · December 30th, 2007, 06:15 PM

Christopher, are the aberrations so bad they're unusable? I've had my heart set on this camera and only been waiting for the first run kinks to be over before buying one. I don't have the ability to test one, any chance you could post some footage of stuff you've had problems with? My primary need for this camera would be for doing movie shorts but I also do alot of wildlife videography and it sounds like the Ex1 is just simply not designed for that. . . but I thought I might at least be able to cheat a little.

Chris Medico · December 30th, 2007, 07:55 PM

The main reason to consider the EX1 over the V1U is the higher bitrate of the codec on the EX1.

The V1U is a great camera, I have one, but I can tell you that its very easy to 'break' the codec with a any high rate of change in the subject matter. Moving water is a torture test for HDV. If you are going to maximum image quality then you have no choice but to buy an EX1 or other higher bitrate camera. None of the HDV cameras will give you the clean results you most likely want regardless of any interchangeable lenses or other great features.

Christopher Barry · December 30th, 2007, 08:22 PM

Matt, I apologise if my explanation was not clear. The issue does not pertain to the EX1 (I am still waiting for mine), it is with regard to a video camera, a 35mm lens adapter and a long 35mm lens. As for footage, I recently deleted it all, as it failed for my intended use. Here is an early configuration of "The Weapon", pre-support lock off for the 400mm lens, and has a 2x extender inserted (and imagine I added the Extension Tube(s)). http://www.siliconcine.net/Brevis/Th...licon_Cine.jpg

Correction to previous post, Sigma 135-400mm f4.5-5.6 D, with a 2x teleconverter added, making it effectively an 800mm mess. Part of the CA issues may pertain to the Sigma being a "D" class lens, whereas "EX" lenses are superior build and optical quality. Chaining that much glass together is the biggest problem.

Matt Buys · December 30th, 2007, 10:05 PM

Thanks Chris, looking back, I see that I should have read your post a second time more carefully. Truly though, your pic was worth my error. Success or not, that is a fantastic looking set-up. Reminds me of seeing the Apollo 13 at Cape Canaveral. If you fail at your adapters I bet at least nasa will give you a job.

December 30th, 2007, 10:34 AM	#1
Brendan Pyatt Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southampton UK Posts: 165	Opinions on V1U to PMW-EX1 (for sports) I currently use a V1U and a 1.5x extender. I am thinking about getting an EX1. The only extender I can find is the to-be-released 1.6x extender from Schneider. Range is important to me - I shoot surfing so can't get closer to my subject... but image quality is paramount and slow motion is also a priority. From what I understand the EX1 has better image quality and will produce better slo-mo but its zoom is shorter (12x) compared to the v1u (20x). I am leaning towards the EX1 due to the better image quality. What do you think? I have just checked up on the zoom length of the EX1 and its only 12x - thats pretty short - shame! Last edited by Brendan Pyatt; December 30th, 2007 at 11:20 AM.

December 30th, 2007, 02:23 PM	#5
Herminio Cordido Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 57	You can get a Letus Extreme and this lens ;) H Attached Thumbnails

December 30th, 2007, 07:55 PM	#13
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	The main reason to consider the EX1 over the V1U is the higher bitrate of the codec on the EX1. The V1U is a great camera, I have one, but I can tell you that its very easy to 'break' the codec with a any high rate of change in the subject matter. Moving water is a torture test for HDV. If you are going to maximum image quality then you have no choice but to buy an EX1 or other higher bitrate camera. None of the HDV cameras will give you the clean results you most likely want regardless of any interchangeable lenses or other great features. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

December 30th, 2007, 11:37 AM	#2
Don Greening Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Port Coquitlam BC Canada Posts: 179	The zoom on the EX1 is 14x, not 12, so the extender you're considering will get you even closer to your surfers. I could write a couple of paragraphs as to why the EX1 will be better than the V1U for your shooting needs. Probably the biggest advantage will be the increased exposure latitude of the EX1, meaning there will be more detail in the highlights and the shadows, which is a huge plus when working outside with large contrast differences. - Don

December 30th, 2007, 04:47 PM	#6
Bill Spence Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 29	Herm's got a point. You could always buy a 35mm adapter like the Letus Extreme or Brevis Flip, and then you could attach any camera lens to it that you own. Then you could get any lens that would fit your purposes, AND, you get to use that lens with your DSLR camera as well. Two birds with one stone.

December 30th, 2007, 04:53 PM	#7
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	That sounds like a long camera with all of the adaptors and tele lenses. The use of a long lens for video without a servo motor might be tricky as well.

December 30th, 2007, 05:28 PM	#9
Christopher Barry Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 107	I put a 200-400mm lens on the adapter and discovered significant vignette and chromatic aberration issues, together with any bump and wobble is easily transferred through the rig, as it is long and heavy and much of the weight extends away from the pivot point on the tripod. Start thinking about getting a solid head. At 400mm, I was only achieving the same range as the camera lens. I strongly recommend testing/renting before anyone entertains the idea of using extremely long lenses with 35mm lenses adapters. btw, I understand that Herminio was kidding.

December 30th, 2007, 06:07 PM	#11
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	so why go to the ex1, choose the Z7 that has removable lense or a XL1H that has very nice 1440 sensor.

December 30th, 2007, 06:15 PM	#12
Matt Buys Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 426	Christopher, are the aberrations so bad they're unusable? I've had my heart set on this camera and only been waiting for the first run kinks to be over before buying one. I don't have the ability to test one, any chance you could post some footage of stuff you've had problems with? My primary need for this camera would be for doing movie shorts but I also do alot of wildlife videography and it sounds like the Ex1 is just simply not designed for that. . . but I thought I might at least be able to cheat a little.

December 30th, 2007, 08:22 PM	#14
Christopher Barry Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 107	Matt, I apologise if my explanation was not clear. The issue does not pertain to the EX1 (I am still waiting for mine), it is with regard to a video camera, a 35mm lens adapter and a long 35mm lens. As for footage, I recently deleted it all, as it failed for my intended use. Here is an early configuration of "The Weapon", pre-support lock off for the 400mm lens, and has a 2x extender inserted (and imagine I added the Extension Tube(s)). http://www.siliconcine.net/Brevis/Th...licon_Cine.jpg Correction to previous post, Sigma 135-400mm f4.5-5.6 D, with a 2x teleconverter added, making it effectively an 800mm mess. Part of the CA issues may pertain to the Sigma being a "D" class lens, whereas "EX" lenses are superior build and optical quality. Chaining that much glass together is the biggest problem.

December 30th, 2007, 10:05 PM	#15
Matt Buys Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 426	Thanks Chris, looking back, I see that I should have read your post a second time more carefully. Truly though, your pic was worth my error. Success or not, that is a fantastic looking set-up. Reminds me of seeing the Apollo 13 at Cape Canaveral. If you fail at your adapters I bet at least nasa will give you a job.