XDCAM EX1 wide angle choice at DVinfo.net

Sebastien Thomas · December 27th, 2007, 04:08 AM

Hi,

I bought the Sony .8 wide angle with the camera, but it hasn't arrived yet. In the meantime I found other vendors claim to have a wide angle lens soon, more of the time larger than the .8 of the Sony.

Questions :
- which brand will make such wide angle lenses ?
- how much will it cost ?
- will it be cheaper than the Sony ?
- will it be better ?

Does anyone have received the Sony Wide angle yet ?
Does it have some chromatic aberation or distortions ?
Is it wide enough ?
Will a wider lens be "usable" without too distortions ?

For the moment I noted that Schneider will have some wide angles by march. http://www.schneideroptics.com/century/dv/ex/ex.htm.
But what is the difference between the "adapter" and the "converter" ?

any other brand to offer such a product sooner than march ?

Maybe this could be a sticky ?

Phil Bloom · December 27th, 2007, 04:56 AM

which other wide angle lenses have you found?

Sebastien Thomas · December 27th, 2007, 08:47 AM

not more from now. I remember someone said here another brand would make one, but maybe it was the schneider.
I just checked Century Optics and realized it was also schneider :)
What about the "16x9 inc" products ? (Can't give a URL here as it may brake the authorized resseler rule...)

The goal of this thread was to get feedback, not spend a day calling every optics manufacturer :)

Ryan Avery · December 27th, 2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastien Thomas

Hi,

For the moment I noted that Schneider will have some wide angles by march. http://www.schneideroptics.com/century/dv/ex/ex.htm.
But what is the difference between the "adapter" and the "converter" ?

any other brand to offer such a product sooner than march ?

Maybe this could be a sticky ?

An adapter is a partial zooming piece which in our preliminary tests on the EX1 enables zooming up to about half way through the zoom range.

A converter is a full zoom through piece which enables zooming throughout the zoom range of the camera.

The EX1 attachments will be some of our finest attachments available. As far as I am aware, we are currently the only accessory lens company to have something specifically designed for the EX1. Other manufacturers will have step rings available and adaptations of existing models but I assume it will be a while before they are able to produce something made for the camera.

If you are interested in ordering some pieces, order sooner rather than later because the first few lenses are selling fast.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Tom Hardwick · December 27th, 2007, 12:17 PM

Sebastion - one of your questions is, 'is it wide enough?' No-one can answer that but you, but if you're asking me then the answer has to be a resolute NO. 25.6 mm (in 35 mm still picture terms) is so-so wide, nothing spectacular, but fairly inoffensive and 'useful'. The 17 mm (equiv) I have on my Z1 is dramatic in comparison.

To get this mild increase you have to add nearly a kilo of glass with a huge hood - it's quite a lump to store and to attach. And of course as it's a spherical lensed zoom-through, you can bet your boots that it's going to increase the barrel distortion. Not by much, but that's why it's been limited to such a feeble power.

I'm pretty sure others will be quick to seize upon the marketing potential of the EX1 and bring out 0.7x and stronger converter lenses. They'll all be pretty hefty lenses, as the 82 mm thread and associated bayonet are biggies.

tom.

Raymond Schlogel · December 27th, 2007, 05:25 PM

Ryan, when might we get a first look of some footage with your forthcoming lenses?

- Ray

Phil Bloom · December 27th, 2007, 07:10 PM

love to see 16x9 range. Shame they have already called their range EX. very confusing!

Sebastien Thomas · December 28th, 2007, 04:03 AM

Ryan, thanks for the answer. Your website state for availlability in March. Is this true ? Will you have some before ? Will you show some footages with/without anytime soon ?

Stating from what you said I will go for the adapter, as I want the wider lens possible and no need to zoom in it (It will get too quick to the original width).

The question on "is it wide enough" is, of course, hard to answer :)
Let's change it to : "is a .8 offering enough width compared to it's physical size, weight, distortion and price ?"

Finaly, and this may be a stupid question, but... will the lens adapter change the minimum focus point or depth of field ? in which way ?
:)

Tom Hardwick · December 28th, 2007, 04:17 AM

The lens adapters and converters reduce the focal length of the zoom, so that a 0.5x converter will change a 10 - 100mm zoom into a 5 - 50 mm zoom, and an adapter will typically change the same zoom into a 5 - 60 mm zoom.

They do no more than this. The zoom's minimum focus distance hasn't been altered, but D o F can appear be greater simply because you can use a shorter focal length. If you zoom the camera to 25 mm (say) with the wide-angle lens attached, all will be the same as if you'd shot at 25 mm with the 'prime' zoom alone.

'All will be the same' except that the picture will be slightly less sharp, will show more distortion and will have greater flare levels. This is the price we must all pay. Make sure the perspective control you gain by using the shorter focal lengths outweigh the disadvantages.

tom.

Sebastien Thomas · December 28th, 2007, 05:39 AM

Thanks Tom for this precision.

I just went accros this site : http://www.zgc.com/zgc.nsf/c7a682995...b?OpenDocument

They say no schedule date so I asked them. Waiting for the answer right now.
(hope it won't break the chart, remove the URL if so).

Ryan Avery · December 28th, 2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastien Thomas

Ryan, thanks for the answer. Your website state for availlability in March. Is this true ? Will you have some before ? Will you show some footages with/without anytime soon ?

Stating from what you said I will go for the adapter, as I want the wider lens possible and no need to zoom in it (It will get too quick to the original width).

The question on "is it wide enough" is, of course, hard to answer :)
Let's change it to : "is a .8 offering enough width compared to it's physical size, weight, distortion and price ?"

Finaly, and this may be a stupid question, but... will the lens adapter change the minimum focus point or depth of field ? in which way ?
:)

Sebastien,

March is the scheduled due date for delivery of the first round of lenses that are still available. We might have some earlier than that but they are all spoken for on back orders. You should order with your dealer ASAP or you might be waiting much longer than March. I would anticipate a many month back order log as the weeks go by so order soon.

Footage will be available on the website sometime in February. I am the person that shoots the footage for the website but I travel frequently so it is a combo of catching me in the office when we also have adapters to shoot through.

A .8x is 20% wider but this doesn't help you really since we are making a .75x for the camera which will be 25% wider. If you are familiar with 35mm film cameras (still or motion picture), take a camera out and shoot at the equivalent focal lengths.

The DOF question has been very appropriately answered in an above post by Tom Hardwick so I won't repeat good info. The only thing I will say is that while accessory lenses do cause a slight decrease in resolution and higher incidence of flare, Century lenses have the lowest incidence of flare of any accessory lens on the market. It would be a good idea to shade an optic (manufacturer native lens, accessory or otherwise) with the appropriate shade. We offer matte boxes as well as shades designed specifically for our lenses.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Raymond Schlogel · December 28th, 2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Avery

Sebastien,
I am the person that shoots the footage for the website but I travel frequently so it is a combo of catching me in the office when we also have adapters to shoot through.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Feel free to send me some lenses and I'll be happy to get that footage for ya! You know, ta help ya out. =)

- Ray

Ryan Avery · December 28th, 2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond Schlogel

Feel free to send me some lenses and I'll be happy to get that footage for ya! You know, ta help ya out. =)

- Ray

Noted. . . .

Sebastien Thomas · January 4th, 2008, 04:48 AM

I just got my (ex)resseler by email. The Sony wide angle is due for late February...
My first two real work will have to be done without it.

I think I'll take the time needed to wait for the Schneider, in the meantime I hope we'll see some footages :)

December 27th, 2007, 04:08 AM	#1
Sebastien Thomas Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Paris, France Posts: 210	XDCAM EX1 wide angle choice Hi, I bought the Sony .8 wide angle with the camera, but it hasn't arrived yet. In the meantime I found other vendors claim to have a wide angle lens soon, more of the time larger than the .8 of the Sony. Questions : - which brand will make such wide angle lenses ? - how much will it cost ? - will it be cheaper than the Sony ? - will it be better ? Does anyone have received the Sony Wide angle yet ? Does it have some chromatic aberation or distortions ? Is it wide enough ? Will a wider lens be "usable" without too distortions ? For the moment I noted that Schneider will have some wide angles by march. http://www.schneideroptics.com/century/dv/ex/ex.htm. But what is the difference between the "adapter" and the "converter" ? any other brand to offer such a product sooner than march ? Maybe this could be a sticky ?

December 27th, 2007, 04:56 AM	#2
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	which other wide angle lenses have you found? __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

December 27th, 2007, 05:25 PM	#6
Raymond Schlogel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 162 Images: 3	Ryan, when might we get a first look of some footage with your forthcoming lenses? - Ray __________________ www.undergroundplanet.com

December 27th, 2007, 07:10 PM	#7
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	love to see 16x9 range. Shame they have already called their range EX. very confusing! __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

December 27th, 2007, 08:47 AM	#3
Sebastien Thomas Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Paris, France Posts: 210	not more from now. I remember someone said here another brand would make one, but maybe it was the schneider. I just checked Century Optics and realized it was also schneider :) What about the "16x9 inc" products ? (Can't give a URL here as it may brake the authorized resseler rule...) The goal of this thread was to get feedback, not spend a day calling every optics manufacturer :)

December 27th, 2007, 12:17 PM	#5
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Sebastion - one of your questions is, 'is it wide enough?' No-one can answer that but you, but if you're asking me then the answer has to be a resolute NO. 25.6 mm (in 35 mm still picture terms) is so-so wide, nothing spectacular, but fairly inoffensive and 'useful'. The 17 mm (equiv) I have on my Z1 is dramatic in comparison. To get this mild increase you have to add nearly a kilo of glass with a huge hood - it's quite a lump to store and to attach. And of course as it's a spherical lensed zoom-through, you can bet your boots that it's going to increase the barrel distortion. Not by much, but that's why it's been limited to such a feeble power. I'm pretty sure others will be quick to seize upon the marketing potential of the EX1 and bring out 0.7x and stronger converter lenses. They'll all be pretty hefty lenses, as the 82 mm thread and associated bayonet are biggies. tom.

December 28th, 2007, 04:03 AM	#8
Sebastien Thomas Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Paris, France Posts: 210	Ryan, thanks for the answer. Your website state for availlability in March. Is this true ? Will you have some before ? Will you show some footages with/without anytime soon ? Stating from what you said I will go for the adapter, as I want the wider lens possible and no need to zoom in it (It will get too quick to the original width). The question on "is it wide enough" is, of course, hard to answer :) Let's change it to : "is a .8 offering enough width compared to it's physical size, weight, distortion and price ?" Finaly, and this may be a stupid question, but... will the lens adapter change the minimum focus point or depth of field ? in which way ? :)

December 28th, 2007, 04:17 AM	#9
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	The lens adapters and converters reduce the focal length of the zoom, so that a 0.5x converter will change a 10 - 100mm zoom into a 5 - 50 mm zoom, and an adapter will typically change the same zoom into a 5 - 60 mm zoom. They do no more than this. The zoom's minimum focus distance hasn't been altered, but D o F can appear be greater simply because you can use a shorter focal length. If you zoom the camera to 25 mm (say) with the wide-angle lens attached, all will be the same as if you'd shot at 25 mm with the 'prime' zoom alone. 'All will be the same' except that the picture will be slightly less sharp, will show more distortion and will have greater flare levels. This is the price we must all pay. Make sure the perspective control you gain by using the shorter focal lengths outweigh the disadvantages. tom.

December 28th, 2007, 05:39 AM	#10
Sebastien Thomas Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Paris, France Posts: 210	Thanks Tom for this precision. I just went accros this site : http://www.zgc.com/zgc.nsf/c7a682995...b?OpenDocument They say no schedule date so I asked them. Waiting for the answer right now. (hope it won't break the chart, remove the URL if so).

January 4th, 2008, 04:48 AM	#14
Sebastien Thomas Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Paris, France Posts: 210	I just got my (ex)resseler by email. The Sony wide angle is due for late February... My first two real work will have to be done without it. I think I'll take the time needed to wait for the Schneider, in the meantime I hope we'll see some footages :)