Firmware Update Wish List

Michael Mann · January 7th, 2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyson Persall

Im shocked they didnt include this ...

Me too. This is very annoying, like not providing an audio limiter!
But didn't someone of the early testers mention a pre-record buffer WOULD be included later (by firmware)?

Jason Bodnar · January 7th, 2008, 04:52 PM

1080 60p would be nice if firmware could enable.

Paul Joy · January 7th, 2008, 09:07 PM

WB: I find the way the WB switch works to be fine other than it would be nice to be able to select the WB setting on the LCD and dial in a different number manually.

Peaking & Zebra: I agree with the earlier comment, I too often find myself pressing the peaking button and not knowing if it is on or off due to it not having an effect in some situations.

OIS: I can't believe this isn't assignable to a button, it's the same on the Canon A1, I'm not sure why this mistake keeps getting made.

Clip Review: It would be nice if pressing the clip review button a second time would cancel the playback. It's a pain having to hunt around on top of the camera for the stop button mid shoot.

Component out: As this is the only way to connect this camera to a standard HD TV to review footage, it would be nice if it would output the full resolution instead of removing the overscan area. This is especially annoying with most new TV's being able to display the full 1080 image.

Craig Seeman · January 7th, 2008, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Joy

WB: I find the way the WB switch works to be fine other than it would be nice to be able to select the WB setting on the LCD and dial in a different number manually.

Paul, how are you switching between 3200° and 5600°? I simply can not throw up a white card in many situations and ATW is a sure way to not have consistency. Right now I'm switching Picture Profiles but that's a real pane and a waste of a PP IMHO.

Paul Joy · January 8th, 2008, 03:23 AM

Firstly I change the WB settings so that preset B is set to MEM and not ATW, that gives you the ability to store a WB on both preset A and preset B.

I usually leave these on 3200 & 5600 and switch between them as required using the WB switch. If something else is required though, like you want it slightly warmer than the camera decides then it seems PP is the only way to do so. This is where is would be nice to select the WB setting in the LCD and dial in a setting instead, much like you can on the Canon A1.

The way I understand it is that the bottom switch position PRST is set at 3200 anyway (or can be changed in the menu) so in effect you could have 3 stored options.

Craig Seeman · January 8th, 2008, 06:57 AM

Paul, only the preset can be dialed in. While MEM A and MEM B can be anything, the only way to get that "anything" is to actually fidel with white balance against whatever (white card). There's no way to SET (dial in) either MEM A or MEM B to a given number unless you're not telling us something.

In other words you can't get a MEM position to be 5600 unless you happen to white balance and store when the light temp happens to be 5600. That's POOR design in my opinion. I SHOULD be able to dial in 5600 (or whatever I want) to ANY MEM position, NOT just Preset.

Preset can be dialed in to ANYTHING. It Defaults to 3200, can be dialed in with Picture Profile. The user has NO control over MEM A or B other than to actually set on white and it'll wind up whatever it is, no necessarily 5600.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Joy

Firstly I change the WB settings so that preset B is set to MEM and not ATW, that gives you the ability to store a WB on both preset A and preset B.

I usually leave these on 3200 & 5600 and switch between them as required using the WB switch. If something else is required though, like you want it slightly warmer than the camera decides then it seems PP is the only way to do so. This is where is would be nice to select the WB setting in the LCD and dial in a setting instead, much like you can on the Canon A1.

The way I understand it is that the bottom switch position PRST is set at 3200 anyway (or can be changed in the menu) so in effect you could have 3 stored options.

Piotr Wozniacki · January 8th, 2008, 08:02 AM

I haven't got my EX1 yet, but these WB woes make me wonder: if prosumer cameras (like the Canon A1 or Sony V1) can have it right, why not a professional division product like the EX1?

So, my question to the bigger CineAlta cams' users: what are the WB options on the 350, for instance?

David Lorente · January 8th, 2008, 08:15 AM

I don't wan't to be a spoilsport, but, as far as my knowledge in electronics reaches, it is not possible to increase the frame rate to reach 1080 60p just with a firmware update.

Why? Because to reach 60p means that the electronic circuits of the camera should handle the double of data than at 30p, and they are not designed for such higher data rates. They can handle less, that's why it's possible to undercrank, but no more. Notice that a video frame in 1080 lines is about 2 MegaPixels, but at 720 lines, it is just the half, 1 MP. That's why the camera can double the frame rate at 720 lines, because the total amount of data per second is the same. Notice that if the hardware could handle 1080 60p, it could also work at 720 120p, and that would be very funny! But that's for a future camera...

However, the MPEG compression data rate is increased when overcranking, so a higher data rate for standard frame rates should be possible. But I don't think the color encoding, which is 4:2:0, could be changed, as this is surely implemented in the MPEG encoding chip, however I can't assure that this can't be changed, neither can confirm that the data rate could be increased.

And, IMHO, I think we must remember that Sony has released a prosumer camera with the same specs as their higher end cameras that cost 2 or 3 times the price of the EX, it reaches the level of the XDCAM HD camcorders, and can even be compared with the HDCAM ones, so who could ask for more?

Piotr Wozniacki · January 8th, 2008, 08:23 AM

Of course the full 1080/50(60)p is not viable yet; if not for the imagers than for the media bandwidth limitations.

Back to the wishlist; being CineAlta I wonder why the EX1 doesn't have a more cinematic Aspect Marker available? Paul has given us a beautiful example of cropping at post, which would be much easier should we have the right aspect merker available at shooting time!

Paul Joy · January 8th, 2008, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

Paul, only the preset can be dialed in. While MEM A and MEM B can be anything, the only way to get that "anything" is to actually fidel with white balance against whatever (white card).

I must have just been lucky then. The first time I white balanced outside I used A, the first time inside I used B. The result was 5600 & 3200 so I just left it at that.

I do agree though, you should be able to input them yourself.

Steven Thomas · January 8th, 2008, 09:12 AM

Yes, I guess once you get MEM A&B to 5600 & 3200, you could leave them there and if you really want to fine tune, you will have to change the profile WB.

I'm really not finding changing the profile that big of a deal. Once you call up that parameter, It remembers the last parameter setting your adjusting. So when you press the picture profile button, you're back to the the WB setting.

Tuomas Sebastien · January 8th, 2008, 07:38 PM

About the wish to have 1080p60/50... if this http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08010601casiof1.asp can do it without even being a motion camera... so sony should really consider adding 1080p60/50

Tuomas Sebastien · January 8th, 2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuomas Sebastien

-Ability to change shutter speed with joystick when direct menu is set to PART. I didn't like much the fact that changing direct menu to ALL disable separate gain and WB switches. Perhaps these could work same time also --> if you touch the separate switches of gain and WB it would change the setting even though direct menu would be set to ALL

Have to quote my earlier wish.. I DIDN'T notice that there's a shutter on/off switch front of the camera:P That pretty much makes my previous wish absolette.

Bob Grant · January 8th, 2008, 09:41 PM

I have a feeling this camera might be a little bit more complex than we realise. In one of the menus for setting WB it's not a simple matter of adjusting the CT, there's also a set of matrix adjustments. This seems to make some sense to me. Two light sources of the same CT may not be identical and produce different colour renditions. The camera does seem to spend a fair amount of time doing its WB thing so there might be quite a lot of calculations going on to get precise WB.

So what Sony might be not saying is sure you can just dial in a number or store a WB setting for say daylight but it's not as good as it can be working that way. I've noticed something not unlike this on other cameras, you can dial in Daylight or Tungsten but even with a tungsten light you need to do a little CCing in post to get it really spot on.

Having said that, it'd still be good to have the option to have A and B as 'near enough' settings for daylight and tungsten.

Jason Bodnar · January 8th, 2008, 11:15 PM

Tuomas, funny you mention the Casio as I saw this at CES and after I saw it, I posted my 1080 60p wish. Even if somehow they could make it work. I would be happy with 30 seconds or a Minute of HQ on a 16GB card. I understand the 1080 60p is probably not going to happen but hey it is a wish list! I am going to buy an EX1 but someday I hope to be able to get a 120fps or 300fps+ camera because those ultra slow mo shots of high speed motion are very very impressive!

January 7th, 2008, 09:07 PM	#33
Paul Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 627	WB: I find the way the WB switch works to be fine other than it would be nice to be able to select the WB setting on the LCD and dial in a different number manually. Peaking & Zebra: I agree with the earlier comment, I too often find myself pressing the peaking button and not knowing if it is on or off due to it not having an effect in some situations. OIS: I can't believe this isn't assignable to a button, it's the same on the Canon A1, I'm not sure why this mistake keeps getting made. Clip Review: It would be nice if pressing the clip review button a second time would cancel the playback. It's a pain having to hunt around on top of the camera for the stop button mid shoot. Component out: As this is the only way to connect this camera to a standard HD TV to review footage, it would be nice if it would output the full resolution instead of removing the overscan area. This is especially annoying with most new TV's being able to display the full 1080 image. __________________ Blog: www.pauljoy.com Company: www.videotrader.co.uk

January 8th, 2008, 03:23 AM	#35
Paul Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 627	Firstly I change the WB settings so that preset B is set to MEM and not ATW, that gives you the ability to store a WB on both preset A and preset B. I usually leave these on 3200 & 5600 and switch between them as required using the WB switch. If something else is required though, like you want it slightly warmer than the camera decides then it seems PP is the only way to do so. This is where is would be nice to select the WB setting in the LCD and dial in a setting instead, much like you can on the Canon A1. The way I understand it is that the bottom switch position PRST is set at 3200 anyway (or can be changed in the menu) so in effect you could have 3 stored options. __________________ Blog: www.pauljoy.com Company: www.videotrader.co.uk

January 8th, 2008, 08:02 AM	#37
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	I haven't got my EX1 yet, but these WB woes make me wonder: if prosumer cameras (like the Canon A1 or Sony V1) can have it right, why not a professional division product like the EX1? So, my question to the bigger CineAlta cams' users: what are the WB options on the 350, for instance? __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

January 8th, 2008, 08:15 AM	#38
David Lorente Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cuenca (Spain) Posts: 92	I don't wan't to be a spoilsport, but, as far as my knowledge in electronics reaches, it is not possible to increase the frame rate to reach 1080 60p just with a firmware update. Why? Because to reach 60p means that the electronic circuits of the camera should handle the double of data than at 30p, and they are not designed for such higher data rates. They can handle less, that's why it's possible to undercrank, but no more. Notice that a video frame in 1080 lines is about 2 MegaPixels, but at 720 lines, it is just the half, 1 MP. That's why the camera can double the frame rate at 720 lines, because the total amount of data per second is the same. Notice that if the hardware could handle 1080 60p, it could also work at 720 120p, and that would be very funny! But that's for a future camera... However, the MPEG compression data rate is increased when overcranking, so a higher data rate for standard frame rates should be possible. But I don't think the color encoding, which is 4:2:0, could be changed, as this is surely implemented in the MPEG encoding chip, however I can't assure that this can't be changed, neither can confirm that the data rate could be increased. And, IMHO, I think we must remember that Sony has released a prosumer camera with the same specs as their higher end cameras that cost 2 or 3 times the price of the EX, it reaches the level of the XDCAM HD camcorders, and can even be compared with the HDCAM ones, so who could ask for more? __________________ Wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Radio operates exactly the same way, but there is no cat.

January 8th, 2008, 08:23 AM	#39
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Of course the full 1080/50(60)p is not viable yet; if not for the imagers than for the media bandwidth limitations. Back to the wishlist; being CineAlta I wonder why the EX1 doesn't have a more cinematic Aspect Marker available? Paul has given us a beautiful example of cropping at post, which would be much easier should we have the right aspect merker available at shooting time! __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

January 7th, 2008, 04:52 PM	#32
Jason Bodnar Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 376	1080 60p would be nice if firmware could enable.

January 8th, 2008, 09:12 AM	#41
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Yes, I guess once you get MEM A&B to 5600 & 3200, you could leave them there and if you really want to fine tune, you will have to change the profile WB. I'm really not finding changing the profile that big of a deal. Once you call up that parameter, It remembers the last parameter setting your adjusting. So when you press the picture profile button, you're back to the the WB setting.

January 8th, 2008, 07:38 PM	#42
Tuomas Sebastien Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Finland Posts: 107	About the wish to have 1080p60/50... if this http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08010601casiof1.asp can do it without even being a motion camera... so sony should really consider adding 1080p60/50

January 8th, 2008, 09:41 PM	#44
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	White Balance I have a feeling this camera might be a little bit more complex than we realise. In one of the menus for setting WB it's not a simple matter of adjusting the CT, there's also a set of matrix adjustments. This seems to make some sense to me. Two light sources of the same CT may not be identical and produce different colour renditions. The camera does seem to spend a fair amount of time doing its WB thing so there might be quite a lot of calculations going on to get precise WB. So what Sony might be not saying is sure you can just dial in a number or store a WB setting for say daylight but it's not as good as it can be working that way. I've noticed something not unlike this on other cameras, you can dial in Daylight or Tungsten but even with a tungsten light you need to do a little CCing in post to get it really spot on. Having said that, it'd still be good to have the option to have A and B as 'near enough' settings for daylight and tungsten.

January 8th, 2008, 11:15 PM	#45
Jason Bodnar Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 376	Tuomas, funny you mention the Casio as I saw this at CES and after I saw it, I posted my 1080 60p wish. Even if somehow they could make it work. I would be happy with 30 seconds or a Minute of HQ on a 16GB card. I understand the 1080 60p is probably not going to happen but hey it is a wish list! I am going to buy an EX1 but someday I hope to be able to get a 120fps or 300fps+ camera because those ultra slow mo shots of high speed motion are very very impressive!