Picture Profile Recipes

Michael B. McGee · April 1st, 2009, 06:08 PM

hey Danny,
yeah, i'm unsure of the Gamma Level: is it -40 or 0?
Black: -12, -8, -4, -3

amongst others...

Michael B. McGee · April 1st, 2009, 06:13 PM

and more thing. how in the hell did Phil or Bill adjust the KNEE if the GAMMA was set to CINE1??? are they magicians or merlins????

Danny Dale · April 1st, 2009, 06:22 PM

The knee and black/gamma settings - those are all the "little differences" that drove me mad. I think Bill explains the black settings in the thread on Phil's site - just scroll down and he makes comments. I ended up with black -8, level 0, cine3, detail off

Michael B. McGee · April 1st, 2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Dale

The knee and black/gamma settings - those are all the "little differences" that drove me mad. I think Bill explains the black settings in the thread on Phil's site - just scroll down and he makes comments. I ended up with black -8, level 0, cine3, detail off

that's funny how different people read different things. Here's the 1st comment Bill had on Phil's site in the link you sent me. he's got BLACK at -3. no mention of GAMMA level at 0. i still think supposed to be -40.

A few words on the PP settings I have called TC2 and TC3.
TC2 gives rich saturated realistic colors, perhaps a bit towards the red/yellow.
TC3(the second set Phil posted) uses the CINEMA preset and a Color Correction factor. TC3 is less saturated, more balanced towards blue/green than TC2.

The Black settings have evolved from my original recommendation. A setting of -12 gives full dynamic range to the capture, however, in order to maximize dynamic range, there is no headroom, or footroom if you prefer. IOW, controlled lighting is required or you’ll crush the shadows very easily. I have since backed off the Black setting to -3 for more headroom/footroom in less controlled lighting situations. It would seem even “0″ is more forgiving in run and gun situations.

I hope this helps those with questions.
best,
Bill

Danny Dale · April 1st, 2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Dale

I ended up with black -8, level 0, cine3, detail off

Just so you know, those settings are what I chose after playing around with them, just looking at them on my Dell 2405. I don't have a true high-quality monitor or scopes, that's why I was following Bill's settings cause he set up the PP's with real monitors/scopes. Maybe try and contact him, or start a thread asking about his PP's?

Brian Luce · April 7th, 2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Dale

did the same thing - read all the posts and couldn't find anything newer than what was on Philip's site. That's why I sent Bill an email asking about the latest tweaks/settings, but no reply.

Maybe if he gets more requests, he'll post something.

Unfortunately it seems if you want profile settings you either have to DIY or pay. I've got some settings from Paolo Ciccone I'll try and post up soon. His recipes for the JVC were legendary.

Bill Ravens · April 7th, 2009, 12:57 PM

Hey guys...

I've read your posts with some curiosity and provide the following response:
I posted my profiles with good intentions, wanting to share and help fellow DVINFO.Net'ers. What I caused was a firestorm of criticism for a small few who took issue with my settings. I also shared one profile with Phil Bloom, asking that he keep it to himself, which he did not. Unfortunately, because of these few, I no longer post settings, nor make my settings available.

I thank you for your interest, and hope you can understand the dilemma.

Brian Luce · April 7th, 2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

Hey guys...

I've read your posts with some curiosity and provide the following response:
I posted my profiles with good intentions, wanting to share and help fellow DVINFO.Net'ers. What I caused was a firestorm of criticism for a small few who took issue with my settings. I also shared one profile with Phil Bloom, asking that he keep it to himself, which he did not. Unfortunately, because of these few, I no longer post settings, nor make my settings available.

I thank you for your interest, and hope you can understand the dilemma.

I won't complain! Willing to email them? If so, brian90402 AT gmail.
EX3 settings right?

Michael B. McGee · April 8th, 2009, 09:41 AM

I too won't complain. you can IM me if you'd like. i'll keep them under lock and key. thanks for your contributions to this site. i appreciate it.

-Mike

Mitchell Lewis · April 8th, 2009, 09:50 AM

Bill: This is ridiculous that people are complaining about your PP's (I hadn't heard about that). You need to name names so we can ban them from this site. Hehehehe

I just can't understand how worked up some people can get over the most trivial stuff. You've done a great service to this site by the amount of work you've put into your PP's. Don't let some junior high idiots spoil your enthusiasm. What can we do as a group to change your mind?

Danny Dale · April 9th, 2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchell Lewis

Bill: This is ridiculous that people are complaining about your PP's (I hadn't heard about that). You need to name names so we can ban them from this site. Hehehehe

I just can't understand how worked up some people can get over the most trivial stuff. You've done a great service to this site by the amount of work you've put into your PP's. Don't let some junior high idiots spoil your enthusiasm. What can we do as a group to change your mind?

I second that...

Anthony McErlean · April 13th, 2009, 04:49 AM

I've read most of the posts about PP and I was wondering if these setting can be used for an EX3, I think I've seen posts saying no, not to use them and some are saying yes you can.

Thanks.

Kellen Dengler · April 13th, 2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

Hey guys...

I've read your posts with some curiosity and provide the following response:
I posted my profiles with good intentions, wanting to share and help fellow DVINFO.Net'ers. What I caused was a firestorm of criticism for a small few who took issue with my settings. I also shared one profile with Phil Bloom, asking that he keep it to himself, which he did not. Unfortunately, because of these few, I no longer post settings, nor make my settings available.

I thank you for your interest, and hope you can understand the dilemma.

Hey Bill,

I understand your frustration about publicly posting your PPs. If you are cool with direct messaging them I would love to check them out and see the results. I am experiementing with a few a of the widespread public ones out there and can't get the reuslts I'm looking for. Always to looking to test out new ones!

Gints Klimanis · April 13th, 2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

Unfortunately, because of these few, I no longer post settings, nor make my settings available.

Oh no. Don't let a few geeks on the Internet ruin your mood. We are all grateful for your sharing your efforts, and your work lives in a lot of EX1. Thank you for helping me to improve my EX1 picture quality.

Bill Ravens · April 13th, 2009, 06:27 PM

thanx guys....I'm a little floored at the no. of people who have found something worthwhile in what I posted. Well, in any fora where there are a lot of viewers, it's a gaussian distribution of who's reading. Some people can use it, some people just want to tear it down. Just simple statistics. Guess I've learned that I don't like being that visible. Rather be a fly on the wall. If I come up with anything worth sharing, I'll let those who appreciate it, know. Now, if only I had a detector that could tell me....

well, I'm beginning to see that the "look" of the capture isn't as important as what I can morph it into in post. In other words, profiles aren't as significant as capturing the most dynamic range that allows me to make adjustments in post without introducing a lot of grain and color channel distortion. Alistair has posted some good info. Doesn't look so pretty on the EVF, but, it allows a lot of flexibility in post.

The weakness of digital video is the available dynamic range. Even Red cams, according to what I've been reading, don't have the dynamic rancge of film. So, the message is, go for max dynamic range, use proper lighting to keep from intoducing grain in the shadows.

Cineform is beta-ing a metadata method of adjusting exposure, contrast, color balance with their DI. This method holds a great deal of promise for CCing data that is superior to any in camera processing that I've seen. IOW, capture RAW, adjust in post. I think that's where technology is headed.
Thanx again..

April 1st, 2009, 06:13 PM	#452
Michael B. McGee Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 318	Philip Bloom or Bill Ravens' PP? and more thing. how in the hell did Phil or Bill adjust the KNEE if the GAMMA was set to CINE1??? are they magicians or merlins????

April 8th, 2009, 09:50 AM	#460
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Bill: This is ridiculous that people are complaining about your PP's (I hadn't heard about that). You need to name names so we can ban them from this site. Hehehehe I just can't understand how worked up some people can get over the most trivial stuff. You've done a great service to this site by the amount of work you've put into your PP's. Don't let some junior high idiots spoil your enthusiasm. What can we do as a group to change your mind? __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

April 1st, 2009, 06:08 PM	#451
Michael B. McGee Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 318	hey Danny, yeah, i'm unsure of the Gamma Level: is it -40 or 0? Black: -12, -8, -4, -3 amongst others...

April 1st, 2009, 06:22 PM	#453
Danny Dale Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 56	The knee and black/gamma settings - those are all the "little differences" that drove me mad. I think Bill explains the black settings in the thread on Phil's site - just scroll down and he makes comments. I ended up with black -8, level 0, cine3, detail off

April 7th, 2009, 12:57 PM	#457
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Hey guys... I've read your posts with some curiosity and provide the following response: I posted my profiles with good intentions, wanting to share and help fellow DVINFO.Net'ers. What I caused was a firestorm of criticism for a small few who took issue with my settings. I also shared one profile with Phil Bloom, asking that he keep it to himself, which he did not. Unfortunately, because of these few, I no longer post settings, nor make my settings available. I thank you for your interest, and hope you can understand the dilemma.

April 8th, 2009, 09:41 AM	#459
Michael B. McGee Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 318	I too won't complain. you can IM me if you'd like. i'll keep them under lock and key. thanks for your contributions to this site. i appreciate it. -Mike

April 13th, 2009, 04:49 AM	#462
Anthony McErlean Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,082	I've read most of the posts about PP and I was wondering if these setting can be used for an EX3, I think I've seen posts saying no, not to use them and some are saying yes you can. Thanks.

April 13th, 2009, 06:27 PM	#465
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	thanx guys....I'm a little floored at the no. of people who have found something worthwhile in what I posted. Well, in any fora where there are a lot of viewers, it's a gaussian distribution of who's reading. Some people can use it, some people just want to tear it down. Just simple statistics. Guess I've learned that I don't like being that visible. Rather be a fly on the wall. If I come up with anything worth sharing, I'll let those who appreciate it, know. Now, if only I had a detector that could tell me.... well, I'm beginning to see that the "look" of the capture isn't as important as what I can morph it into in post. In other words, profiles aren't as significant as capturing the most dynamic range that allows me to make adjustments in post without introducing a lot of grain and color channel distortion. Alistair has posted some good info. Doesn't look so pretty on the EVF, but, it allows a lot of flexibility in post. The weakness of digital video is the available dynamic range. Even Red cams, according to what I've been reading, don't have the dynamic rancge of film. So, the message is, go for max dynamic range, use proper lighting to keep from intoducing grain in the shadows. Cineform is beta-ing a metadata method of adjusting exposure, contrast, color balance with their DI. This method holds a great deal of promise for CCing data that is superior to any in camera processing that I've seen. IOW, capture RAW, adjust in post. I think that's where technology is headed. Thanx again..