Picture Profile Recipes

Perrone Ford · July 12th, 2008, 01:57 PM

George,

Here is a sample shot with that RC1 profile you posted.

It was shot through the not-so-clean window of my office which overlooks the lounge area outside the building.

Ronn Kilby · July 13th, 2008, 10:25 AM

Hey George - here's a 30 second clip I shot yesterday of my fountain, using a variant of your RC settings. I actually split the difference between the two (Level was 5 vs 0 or 10) and detail off. 720P24 with 1/48 shutter and polarizer.

http://www.box.net/shared/dlka9t48os

Steve Christiansen · July 13th, 2008, 11:05 AM

So what is the best recipe for shooting in heavy sunlight?

Perrone Ford · July 13th, 2008, 12:13 PM

I found the TC2 profile excellent yesterday in mid-afternoon sun, but fairly unusable indoors without a lot of light. The RC1 profile does better in low light and really looks nice.

George Strother · July 13th, 2008, 05:44 PM

Perrone - Thanks for the still. Too bad there wasn't more color range in you subject. Let us see what some full color range subjects look like with RC1 on your camera.

Ronn - Great clip. Nice range of colors in the subject and moving in to frame to show skin tone is a plus. Very saturated without any strange colors that I saw. Should look great from 0 to -15. I had not thought about it before, but I will try a Tru-Pol on the charts to see if that upsets the balance or levels. Polarizers might want a profile of their own.

RC1 is about the max saturation I would be brave enough to use on a real shoot, and then for clients that insist on no post grading. It provides a bit of head space on saturation, but exposure or white balance errors could still give chroma clipping.

RC2 is to show where the top is, DSC 50% color chart taken all of the way to 50% on scopes. Pretty much no chroma head space left.

Perrone Ford · July 13th, 2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Strother

Perrone - Thanks for the still. Too bad there wasn't more color range in you subject. Let us see what some full color range subjects look like with RC1 on your camera.

RC1 is about the max saturation I would be brave enough to use on a real shoot, and then for clients that insist on no post grading. It provides a bit of head space on saturation, but exposure or white balance errors could still give chroma clipping.

Yea, I'll provide something a bit better this coming week. It rained here today, so I couldn't really capture anything.

And I completely agree with you on RC1. I am probably going to shoot with it this week in an interview I have to do. We'll see how it works.

Ronn Kilby · July 13th, 2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Strother

I had not thought about it before, but I will try a Tru-Pol on the charts to see if that upsets the balance or levels. Polarizers might want a profile of their own.
.

That was a Formatt 4x4 polarizer in mattebox. It shifts green on the EX1 when turned to minimum polarization but shows no shift at maximum. I haven't tried turning it around yet to see if that makes a difference. I also haven't tried a screw-in polarizer. Will be trying that this week.

George Strother · July 14th, 2008, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronn Kilby

That was a Formatt 4x4 polarizer in mattebox. It shifts green on the EX1 when turned to minimum polarization but shows no shift at maximum. I haven't tried turning it around yet to see if that makes a difference. I also haven't tried a screw-in polarizer. Will be trying that this week.

Tested the Schneider circular Tru-Pol. Rotation makes no measurable color shift. White balance shifts about 3% toward cyan when mounting the filter. Need to re-white when the filter goes on or off. Panning with the circular does not color shift.

Tested a Tiffen linear polarizer. 90 degree rotation gives a 30% shift magenta to green! Optimize the polarization, white balance and pan 90 degrees can give a 30% green shift. Not good. Mounting it backwards made no improvement.

Neither filter blocked the auto focus system.

It doesn't take scopes and test charts to see this color shift. Just watch on the LCD screen as you rotate the filter or make a long pan in sunlight. Maybe someone can test other brands of circular polarizers and post here.

Ronn Kilby · July 14th, 2008, 05:01 PM

FYI George - the Formatt definitely shifts magenta-to-green on the EX1 (reversing the filter side makes no difference) but causes no shift at all on my Z1U, nor on my Panasonic AJ-D200 DVC-Pro camera I tested today. The Tiffen screw-in 77mm Polarizer does not exhibit any shift at all on the EX1. I thought maybe it was a CMOS thing, so I tried it on my HD-1000 (which is CMOS) and no shift.

George Strother · July 15th, 2008, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronn Kilby

FYI George - the Formatt definitely shifts magenta-to-green on the EX1 (reversing the filter side makes no difference) but causes no shift at all on my Z1U, nor on my Panasonic AJ-D200 DVC-Pro camera I tested today. The Tiffen screw-in 77mm Polarizer does not exhibit any shift at all on the EX1. I thought maybe it was a CMOS thing, so I tried it on my HD-1000 (which is CMOS) and no shift.

Are either of these marked circular? I found the problem on linear, none on circular.

Ronn Kilby · July 15th, 2008, 01:07 PM

Both are linear.

George Strother · July 16th, 2008, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronn Kilby

Both are linear.

So your Tiffen linear screw-in and my Tiffen linear screw-in give opposite results. Hard to draw a useful conclusion from that data.

Clearly not an issue that can be fixed with picture profiles, although a profile that increases chroma levels will magnify color errors from any source.

Anyone using a polarizer that causes a color shift should not combine it with any settings to increase saturation.

Ronn Kilby · July 16th, 2008, 10:31 AM

Correction - my Tiffen screw-in is a circular. My mistake. It's not labeled as such on the filter, but I went to put it back in the box and saw it on the label.

Dennis Wood · July 21st, 2008, 11:04 AM

In shooting our last video university segment on using filters I was surprised to see the EX1 do the green shift while rotating our 4x4 polarizer. We also saw a strong magenta shift when using an ND.9 and graduated ND.6. No other camera in our collection does this with these filters. Interesting.

Justin Carlson · July 21st, 2008, 11:13 AM

I have the same issue when using a B&W circular polarizer and a B&W grad. ND.6

July 12th, 2008, 01:57 PM	#316
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	George, Here is a sample shot with that RC1 profile you posted. It was shot through the not-so-clean window of my office which overlooks the lounge area outside the building. Attached Thumbnails

July 13th, 2008, 10:25 AM	#317
Ronn Kilby Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Fletcher Hills, CA Posts: 211	George's RC Hey George - here's a 30 second clip I shot yesterday of my fountain, using a variant of your RC settings. I actually split the difference between the two (Level was 5 vs 0 or 10) and detail off. 720P24 with 1/48 shutter and polarizer. http://www.box.net/shared/dlka9t48os

July 13th, 2008, 11:05 AM	#318
Steve Christiansen Tourist Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Minnetonka, MN Posts: 1	Daylight So what is the best recipe for shooting in heavy sunlight?

July 21st, 2008, 11:13 AM	#330
Justin Carlson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 173	I have the same issue when using a B&W circular polarizer and a B&W grad. ND.6 __________________ Justin http://www.carlsonmedia.ca

July 13th, 2008, 12:13 PM	#319
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	I found the TC2 profile excellent yesterday in mid-afternoon sun, but fairly unusable indoors without a lot of light. The RC1 profile does better in low light and really looks nice.

July 13th, 2008, 05:44 PM	#320
George Strother Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 204	Perrone - Thanks for the still. Too bad there wasn't more color range in you subject. Let us see what some full color range subjects look like with RC1 on your camera. Ronn - Great clip. Nice range of colors in the subject and moving in to frame to show skin tone is a plus. Very saturated without any strange colors that I saw. Should look great from 0 to -15. I had not thought about it before, but I will try a Tru-Pol on the charts to see if that upsets the balance or levels. Polarizers might want a profile of their own. RC1 is about the max saturation I would be brave enough to use on a real shoot, and then for clients that insist on no post grading. It provides a bit of head space on saturation, but exposure or white balance errors could still give chroma clipping. RC2 is to show where the top is, DSC 50% color chart taken all of the way to 50% on scopes. Pretty much no chroma head space left.

July 14th, 2008, 05:01 PM	#324
Ronn Kilby Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Fletcher Hills, CA Posts: 211	FYI George - the Formatt definitely shifts magenta-to-green on the EX1 (reversing the filter side makes no difference) but causes no shift at all on my Z1U, nor on my Panasonic AJ-D200 DVC-Pro camera I tested today. The Tiffen screw-in 77mm Polarizer does not exhibit any shift at all on the EX1. I thought maybe it was a CMOS thing, so I tried it on my HD-1000 (which is CMOS) and no shift.

July 15th, 2008, 01:07 PM	#326
Ronn Kilby Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Fletcher Hills, CA Posts: 211	Both are linear.

July 16th, 2008, 10:31 AM	#328
Ronn Kilby Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Fletcher Hills, CA Posts: 211	Correction - my Tiffen screw-in is a circular. My mistake. It's not labeled as such on the filter, but I went to put it back in the box and saw it on the label.

July 21st, 2008, 11:04 AM	#329
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	In shooting our last video university segment on using filters I was surprised to see the EX1 do the green shift while rotating our 4x4 polarizer. We also saw a strong magenta shift when using an ND.9 and graduated ND.6. No other camera in our collection does this with these filters. Interesting.