Picture Profile Recipes

Steven Thomas · March 31st, 2008, 10:00 AM

Yes,
I'm actually interested into what will be the best "general" PP setup and overall ideal camera settings for shooting concert footage under stage lighting.

When running manual, I know it can be a pain to dial in for a certain scene, and seconds later have your image blown out due to lighting changes.

Under these dynamic lighting conditions, would it be smart to use the auto iris? I'm not a fan of this, but it may help. The only issue with this is the unnatural exposure change due to the iris response slowly ramping the exposure. This really spells out cheap video.

How would you concert shooters deal with this issue?

Jac Chesson · March 31st, 2008, 11:55 AM

Hi Steven,

You might try to develop a conversation with the lighting director of the show and tell him what you're trying to achieve. He would be the one person able to help you over anyone else.

He might be able to lessen the extreme highs and lows of a concert situation without wrecking the end result. It doesn't hurt to ask.

If he says, "Take a hike!", then I would recommend a subtle riding of the manual iris.

Jac

Steven Thomas · March 31st, 2008, 12:19 PM

Thanks Jac.

That is what I usually do, but when there are instant changes, it's hard to not blow some of the exposures.

Lonnie Bell · April 3rd, 2008, 06:22 AM

Simon,
you mention Cine's are intended for "film-out"... but I would like to ask you to clarify this, because times are changing...

"Film out" use to mean recording digitally, but hoping to print to film for large venue (theater) viewing - a blow up - ahh, the holy grail of indy film guys...

But now with digital projectors in theaters and a traditional "film out" not required anymore - could these cine modes, which are made for "film outs", also actually mean in this era to be destined for digital projection to a theater screen or does it still mean destined to be printed to film or is there a difference?

Thanks,
Lonnie

Michael H. Stevens · April 4th, 2008, 02:21 PM

No, Cines are what you should use depending on condition and what effect you want. Nothing particularly related to film.

Brendan Pyatt · April 6th, 2008, 12:10 PM

Hi,

Ive hada good read through this thread but alot of it find to follow.

I am looking for some PP for shooting outdoor watersports - I guess one for bright sunny conditions and one for cloudy overcast conditions.

- I use a grey card to set white balance.

thanks for any help.

Robert Young · April 20th, 2008, 08:24 PM

Brendan
See the previous posts in this thread (Post #119, #120, and going backward). I am using the Bill Ravens set up with Steven Thomas' modifications and am very pleased.
For bright outdoor shots, the Cine 1 setup is absolutely brilliant. I'm finding that I need to increase exposure anywhere from 1-3 f stops from the camera (Auto Iris) reading to get the best exposure. This will vary with the lighting and needs to be done more with reference to the histogram rather than the "look" on the LCD. This setting has huge latitude and invariably if I shoot what looks good on the LCD, the clip ends up looking rather underexposed on the editing monitor.
For overcast/indoor, the Cine 3 setup is good. I seem to need to increase the exposure around 1/2 of what is needed for the Cine 1 setup.
For overcast/indoor, the Cine 4 also works well and it seems like the camera exposure reading (Auto Iris) is pretty close to right on. It's the only one that I would venture to use in auto mode.
Many thanks to Bill and Steve. It would have taken me forever to reinvent this particular wheel.

Michael Maier · April 23rd, 2008, 03:38 AM

Has anybody develop a PP for low lighting and for high contrast situations yet?

Henry Olko · April 24th, 2008, 04:33 PM

Hi, can anyone share a pictur profilefor a Bleached Bypass look? Im going for the various CSI looks to- CSI Vegas / CSI NY (bleach bypass) etc.. Thanks!

Mathieu Ghekiere · April 24th, 2008, 07:03 PM

Hi, I've received the camera yesterday and I went some playing.
I haven't done this before, so I don't know if my settings will benefit anyone, but anyhow, they are in the excell file, attatched in this post.

Some explanation:
first you see Philip Bloom, that is his first one I took, changed it a verrrry little bit (almost nothing I think) and saved it as Philip Bloom.
Second one, Mathieu Ghekiere, is one I made myself, just by twibling the knobs, going for a pretty nice in-camera look.
Third one, 'Technicolor', isn't really that, it's just a copy of my own look, with some extra saturation, a bit over the top.

Don't know if this will benefit someone, but anyhow, here they are!
Best regards,

Michael Maier · May 1st, 2008, 03:06 PM

The EX1 community is being pretty slow in the developments of looks for the EX1. I remember the HD100 community quickly developed many looks like bleach bypass, color reverse etc.

Piotr Wozniacki · May 2nd, 2008, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

The EX1 community is being pretty slow in the developments of looks for the EX1. I remember the HD100 community quickly developed many looks like bleach bypass, color reverse etc.

Good point, Michael. For a couple of months last year, I used to be a Canon XH-A1 user, and the Canon XH (as well as the H1) communities also were very creative, compared to the EX1 users (us :))

I guess there is a reason to it, though. When I remember how intuitive playing with colour matrices was compared to those of the EX1, I guess it really takes a pro measuring equipment to tweak the pro EX1 in order to achieve some usable results. The same applies to the way Sony implemented everything "cine-" (gammas, matrix etc) - in my opinion, the philosophy behind it is much less obvious that in the case of the Canon, or even Sony V1.

Greg Voevodsky · May 3rd, 2008, 09:58 PM

EXTREME SETTINGS - RECOMMENDATIONS

I shoot bright beaches - white sand, white surf/foam, white clouds during the day and then SURF Sunsets - bright backlight, bright pink clouds, dark foreground - rocks, lighthouses, etc. I do use polas and ND grads.

Default settings were way to contrasty... I've tried some extreme settings but I think I have over done it - as things look a bit too flat and loosing detail - oops.

What would you recommend for these 3 SETTINGS? - NO CINE SETTINGS - PLEASE - IM LOOKING FOR BLACK AND WHITE LEVEL SETTINGS, KNEE, GAMMA, ETC.

1 - REDUCE BRIGHT HIGHLIGHTS ONLY - (MAXIMUM SETTINGS)

2. REDUCE HIGHLIGHTS (ABOVE) + BOOST BLACKS (FOR MAX CONTRAST CAPTURED) - MEDIUM AND MAX SETTING FOR SUNSETS.

I want to capture all the data possible like RED does in RAW, and then dial in the look in Apple's Color.

I do not mind a bit of a flat image as long as all the data is there to play with. Thanks!

Randy Strome · May 4th, 2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Voevodsky

EXTREME SETTINGS - RECOMMENDATIONS

I shoot bright beaches - white sand, white surf/foam, white clouds during the day and then SURF Sunsets - bright backlight, bright pink clouds, dark foreground - rocks, lighthouses, etc. I do use polas and ND grads.

Default settings were way to contrasty... I've tried some extreme settings but I think I have over done it - as things look a bit too flat and loosing detail - oops.

What would you recommend for these 3 SETTINGS? - NO CINE SETTINGS - PLEASE - IM LOOKING FOR BLACK AND WHITE LEVEL SETTINGS, KNEE, GAMMA, ETC.

1 - REDUCE BRIGHT HIGHLIGHTS ONLY - (MAXIMUM SETTINGS)

2. REDUCE HIGHLIGHTS (ABOVE) + BOOST BLACKS (FOR MAX CONTRAST CAPTURED) - MEDIUM AND MAX SETTING FOR SUNSETS.

I want to capture all the data possible like RED does in RAW, and then dial in the look in Apple's Color.

I do not mind a bit of a flat image as long as all the data is there to play with. Thanks!

Hi Greg,

Not sure if you meant that you meant that you wanted to avoid Cine Settings all together or if you wanted to focus on the other settings. Here is a sequence that I did a few days ago with Cine 1. It is straight out of the camera footage with no work in post other than adding transitions and a title (no time this week). After playing around with settings forever, I use this as my safety setting all the time for beach stuff. Only adjustments to the stock Cine 1 is Black at -4 and Bill's color settings (not sure if they are the latest, but I like them).

http://www.vimeo.com/965602

Greg Voevodsky · May 4th, 2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Strome

Hi Greg,

Not sure if you meant that you meant that you wanted to avoid Cine Settings all together or if you wanted to focus on the other settings. Here is a sequence that I did a few days ago with Cine 1. It is straight out of the camera footage with no work in post other than adding transitions and a title (no time this week). After playing around with settings forever, I use this as my safety setting all the time for beach stuff. Only adjustments to the stock Cine 1 is Black at -4 and Bill's color settings (not sure if they are the latest, but I like them).

http://www.vimeo.com/965602

THANKS RANDY,

Actually, I want to avoid the Cine settings - since they are limiting dynamic range a bit more than I like. Also, my footage is meant to be more of a Discovery Channel sharp reality look.

Anyone else? Bright beach, white sand, surf and SUNSETS with detail in the shadows and highlights.

March 31st, 2008, 11:55 AM	#257
Jac Chesson New Boot Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Overland Park, KS Posts: 24	Hi Steven, You might try to develop a conversation with the lighting director of the show and tell him what you're trying to achieve. He would be the one person able to help you over anyone else. He might be able to lessen the extreme highs and lows of a concert situation without wrecking the end result. It doesn't hurt to ask. If he says, "Take a hike!", then I would recommend a subtle riding of the manual iris. Jac __________________ Jac Sony EX3, Sony EX1, Sony DSR450WS, Avid MC Soft, FCS2

April 3rd, 2008, 06:22 AM	#259
Lonnie Bell Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV United States Posts: 361	Simon, you mention Cine's are intended for "film-out"... but I would like to ask you to clarify this, because times are changing... "Film out" use to mean recording digitally, but hoping to print to film for large venue (theater) viewing - a blow up - ahh, the holy grail of indy film guys... But now with digital projectors in theaters and a traditional "film out" not required anymore - could these cine modes, which are made for "film outs", also actually mean in this era to be destined for digital projection to a theater screen or does it still mean destined to be printed to film or is there a difference? Thanks, Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Bell mamas boy productions Las Vegas, NV

April 6th, 2008, 12:10 PM	#261
Brendan Pyatt Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southampton UK Posts: 165	PP for outdoors use - watersports Hi, Ive hada good read through this thread but alot of it find to follow. I am looking for some PP for shooting outdoor watersports - I guess one for bright sunny conditions and one for cloudy overcast conditions. - I use a grey card to set white balance. thanks for any help.

March 31st, 2008, 10:00 AM	#256
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Yes, I'm actually interested into what will be the best "general" PP setup and overall ideal camera settings for shooting concert footage under stage lighting. When running manual, I know it can be a pain to dial in for a certain scene, and seconds later have your image blown out due to lighting changes. Under these dynamic lighting conditions, would it be smart to use the auto iris? I'm not a fan of this, but it may help. The only issue with this is the unnatural exposure change due to the iris response slowly ramping the exposure. This really spells out cheap video. How would you concert shooters deal with this issue?

March 31st, 2008, 12:19 PM	#258
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Thanks Jac. That is what I usually do, but when there are instant changes, it's hard to not blow some of the exposures.

April 4th, 2008, 02:21 PM	#260
Michael H. Stevens Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palm Desert, California Posts: 311	No, Cines are what you should use depending on condition and what effect you want. Nothing particularly related to film.

April 20th, 2008, 08:24 PM	#262
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	Brendan See the previous posts in this thread (Post #119, #120, and going backward). I am using the Bill Ravens set up with Steven Thomas' modifications and am very pleased. For bright outdoor shots, the Cine 1 setup is absolutely brilliant. I'm finding that I need to increase exposure anywhere from 1-3 f stops from the camera (Auto Iris) reading to get the best exposure. This will vary with the lighting and needs to be done more with reference to the histogram rather than the "look" on the LCD. This setting has huge latitude and invariably if I shoot what looks good on the LCD, the clip ends up looking rather underexposed on the editing monitor. For overcast/indoor, the Cine 3 setup is good. I seem to need to increase the exposure around 1/2 of what is needed for the Cine 1 setup. For overcast/indoor, the Cine 4 also works well and it seems like the camera exposure reading (Auto Iris) is pretty close to right on. It's the only one that I would venture to use in auto mode. Many thanks to Bill and Steve. It would have taken me forever to reinvent this particular wheel.

April 23rd, 2008, 03:38 AM	#263
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Has anybody develop a PP for low lighting and for high contrast situations yet?

April 24th, 2008, 04:33 PM	#264
Henry Olko Tourist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Washington tp, NJ Posts: 3	Hi, can anyone share a pictur profilefor a Bleached Bypass look? Im going for the various CSI looks to- CSI Vegas / CSI NY (bleach bypass) etc.. Thanks!

May 1st, 2008, 03:06 PM	#266
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	The EX1 community is being pretty slow in the developments of looks for the EX1. I remember the HD100 community quickly developed many looks like bleach bypass, color reverse etc.

May 3rd, 2008, 09:58 PM	#268
Greg Voevodsky Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portola Valley Posts: 105	EXTREME SETTINGS - RECOMMENDATIONS I shoot bright beaches - white sand, white surf/foam, white clouds during the day and then SURF Sunsets - bright backlight, bright pink clouds, dark foreground - rocks, lighthouses, etc. I do use polas and ND grads. Default settings were way to contrasty... I've tried some extreme settings but I think I have over done it - as things look a bit too flat and loosing detail - oops. What would you recommend for these 3 SETTINGS? - NO CINE SETTINGS - PLEASE - IM LOOKING FOR BLACK AND WHITE LEVEL SETTINGS, KNEE, GAMMA, ETC. 1 - REDUCE BRIGHT HIGHLIGHTS ONLY - (MAXIMUM SETTINGS) 2. REDUCE HIGHLIGHTS (ABOVE) + BOOST BLACKS (FOR MAX CONTRAST CAPTURED) - MEDIUM AND MAX SETTING FOR SUNSETS. I want to capture all the data possible like RED does in RAW, and then dial in the look in Apple's Color. I do not mind a bit of a flat image as long as all the data is there to play with. Thanks!