No Audio when importing 720p60 MXF in Vegas 8 at DVinfo.net

Bernard Racelis · December 24th, 2007, 01:08 PM

When I import a 720p60 MXF into Vegas 8.0a and drag it into the timeline, it only has video but no audio. 1080i and 1080p30 MXFs are fine.

It can't be a problem with the MXF because if I convert it to Cineform using HD link, the converted AVI has both video and audio. So all my 720p60 footage need to be converted to Cineform first before importing into Vegas.

Has anyone tried dropping a 720p60 MXF into a Vegas 8 timeline ?

Raymond Schlogel · December 24th, 2007, 01:20 PM

Not sure about Cineform but when I just use Sony's Clip Browser and convert to MXF I have no problems in Vegas at all.

- Ray

James Huenergardt · December 24th, 2007, 01:23 PM

I might be mistaken, but when you overcrank like that, the camera doesn't capture audio.

Joe Lawry · December 24th, 2007, 01:59 PM

From what i've read 720p24/30 over or under cranked doesn't capture audio however if your set to 720p60 there should be audio in the record as the camera should playback the clip in real time. The same as the hvx.

Can anyone confirm this?

Sami Sanpakkila · December 24th, 2007, 02:18 PM

Im also interested in how the 720 60p works

If you shoot 1280 x 720/59.94P it should record audio as well. I assume it plays back 1280 x 720/59.94P on the camera but is it as simple as taking this footage into Vegas Pro 8 (which I am using) and putting it into 1280 x 720/25p project and it will preview slowed down?

How does the workflow go if you were to use 1280 x 720/59.94P to shoot overcranked footage?

Sami

Bernard Racelis · December 24th, 2007, 02:41 PM

As I mentioned the 720p60 MXF (and original MP4) has audio, and if I convert it to the Cineform codec the output AVI contains audio. I then drop the 720p60 AVI into a 60p timeline and it's fine. But if I drop the MXF into the timeline, there's no audio.

Sami,

This is the first time I've ever used a 60p camera and I've never tried inserting a 60p video into a timeline with a different frame rate. I don't think it will slow down the video -- a 1 minute 60p video will still be a 1 minute video regardless of the timeline frame rate -- unless you stretch the video in the timeline.

I'll try this later -- I don't know if Vegas will eliminate every other frame, or if Vegas will combine/interpolate 2 frames into one to convert from 60 to 30. Converting to 24p is even more complicated. There are third party tools which are available for performing frame rate conversions, although I've never tried any of them other than to convert/deinterlace 60i to 30p.

Andreas Johansson · December 24th, 2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernard Racelis

When I import a 720p60 MXF into Vegas 8.0a and drag it into the timeline, it only has video but no audio.

Doesn't vegas take the original .mp4 files? Do you need to make mxf files at all?

Simon Wyndham · December 24th, 2007, 05:19 PM

I could be wrong on this, but I think I recall hearing that there might be an issue with some 720 files in Vegas. Need to wait until Christmas is over. Though perhaps if DSE is reading this he might be able to chime in. So don't hold me to that as I don't know for certain.

John Hess · December 24th, 2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas Johansson

Doesn't vegas take the original .mp4 files? Do you need to make mxf files at all?

The video is encoded into mp4s but they do not include audio.

Bernard Racelis · December 26th, 2007, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Hess

The video is encoded into mp4s but they do not include audio.

Each clip is contained in its own directory in the SxS card, and each one contains these 5 files:

Directory of D:\video\ex1_test\BPAV\CLPR\083_0006_01

12/20/2007 11:49 PM <DIR> .
12/20/2007 11:49 PM <DIR> ..
12/20/2007 09:56 PM 338,374,948 083_0006_01.MP4
12/20/2007 09:56 PM 859 083_0006_01.SMI
12/20/2007 09:56 PM 71,136 083_0006_01I01.PPN
12/20/2007 09:56 PM 1,645 083_0006_01M01.XML
12/20/2007 09:56 PM 4,616,192 083_0006_01R01.BIM

The SMI file (083_0006_01.SMI above) references the other 4 files. And it shows that both the video and audio are contained in the MP4. But the other external files may be needed to properly sync the video and audio and the EX Clip Browser probably reads the MP4 and the other files to convert to a self-contained MXF file.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<smil xmlns="urn:schemas-professionalDisc:edl:ver.1.20:clipInfo"
umid="060A2B340101010501010D431300000035572F1F554405DF080046020228043B">
<head>
<metadata>
<ref src="./083_0006_01M01.XML" type="NonRealTimeMeta"/>
<ref src="./083_0006_01I01.PPN" type="PicturePointerBPAV"/>
</metadata>
</head>
<body>
<par>
<video src="./083_0006_01.MP4" type="MPEG2HD35_1280_720_MP@HL"
clipBegin="smpte-60-drop=00:00:00:00"
clipEnd="smpte-60-drop=00:01:14:08"/>
<audio src="./083_0006_01.MP4" type="LPCM16"
trackDst="CH1;CH2"
clipBegin="smpte-60-drop=00:00:00:00"
clipEnd="smpte-60-drop=00:01:14:08"/>
<metastream src="./083_0006_01R01.BIM" type="cameraMeta"
clipBegin="smpte-60-drop=00:00:00:00"
clipEnd="smpte-60-drop=00:01:14:08"/>
</par>
</body>
</smil>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

John Hess · December 26th, 2007, 12:23 PM

Okay, this is just an uneducated guess, but I think the audio is encoded in the .BIM file - not in the MP4 file. My reasoning is if you compare the size of the BIM file to the MP4 - it looks like an MP2 and WAV file for making DVDs.

Although the XML does point to the audio in the MP4, it also points to the BIM file as if it were a clip:

<metastream src="./083_0006_01R01.BIM" type="cameraMeta"
clipBegin="smpte-60-drop=00:00:00:00"
clipEnd="smpte-60-drop=00:01:14:08"/>

And with all my experience in PPro 3, any time I drop in an MP4, there's no audio...

Bernard Racelis · December 26th, 2007, 12:54 PM

John,

I don't think the BIM file (4,616,192 byes) is large enough to hold 1 min 14 sec of uncompressed audio (PCM).

John Hess · December 27th, 2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernard Racelis

John,

I don't think the BIM file (4,616,192 byes) is large enough to hold 1 min 14 sec of uncompressed audio (PCM).

I did some research and the BIM file is some sort of Metadata.

The audio is indeed encoded in the MP4... but premiere doesn't recognize the audio yet. Funny thing is Windows Media Player can read the audio, but doesn't recognize the video.

Here's the link where I found this: http://www.epatra.nl/media/downloads...m_workshop.pdf

Bernard Racelis · December 29th, 2007, 11:52 AM

Back to my original query...

Can someone please try to import this 720p60 MXF file into Vegas ?
http://www.palsomedia.com/ex1_test/ex1_720p60.mxf (65MB)

The clip plays with fine in VLC media player, but in Vegas 8.0a there's no audio.

Bill Spence · December 29th, 2007, 12:46 PM

Bernard, I downloaded and tried your clip in both Vegas 8a and 7d. The file loaded just fine into both versions of Vegas and the video playback was fine. The properties of the file show that audio was included with the video, and dropping the clip into the timeline created both an audio and video track, but the audio is just a straight line. So either it was muted during recording, was switched off because of the way you had your mics connected, or you simply can't record audio at 60p ??? Hope this helps.

December 24th, 2007, 01:08 PM	#1
Bernard Racelis Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 82	No Audio when importing 720p60 MXF in Vegas 8 When I import a 720p60 MXF into Vegas 8.0a and drag it into the timeline, it only has video but no audio. 1080i and 1080p30 MXFs are fine. It can't be a problem with the MXF because if I convert it to Cineform using HD link, the converted AVI has both video and audio. So all my 720p60 footage need to be converted to Cineform first before importing into Vegas. Has anyone tried dropping a 720p60 MXF into a Vegas 8 timeline ?

December 24th, 2007, 01:20 PM	#2
Raymond Schlogel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 162 Images: 3	Not sure about Cineform but when I just use Sony's Clip Browser and convert to MXF I have no problems in Vegas at all. - Ray __________________ www.undergroundplanet.com

December 24th, 2007, 01:23 PM	#3
James Huenergardt Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Chehalis, WA Posts: 513	I might be mistaken, but when you overcrank like that, the camera doesn't capture audio.

December 24th, 2007, 01:59 PM	#4
Joe Lawry Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 418	From what i've read 720p24/30 over or under cranked doesn't capture audio however if your set to 720p60 there should be audio in the record as the camera should playback the clip in real time. The same as the hvx. Can anyone confirm this?

December 24th, 2007, 02:18 PM	#5
Sami Sanpakkila Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Finland Posts: 317	Im also interested in how the 720 60p works If you shoot 1280 x 720/59.94P it should record audio as well. I assume it plays back 1280 x 720/59.94P on the camera but is it as simple as taking this footage into Vegas Pro 8 (which I am using) and putting it into 1280 x 720/25p project and it will preview slowed down? How does the workflow go if you were to use 1280 x 720/59.94P to shoot overcranked footage? Sami

December 24th, 2007, 02:41 PM	#6
Bernard Racelis Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 82	As I mentioned the 720p60 MXF (and original MP4) has audio, and if I convert it to the Cineform codec the output AVI contains audio. I then drop the 720p60 AVI into a 60p timeline and it's fine. But if I drop the MXF into the timeline, there's no audio. Sami, This is the first time I've ever used a 60p camera and I've never tried inserting a 60p video into a timeline with a different frame rate. I don't think it will slow down the video -- a 1 minute 60p video will still be a 1 minute video regardless of the timeline frame rate -- unless you stretch the video in the timeline. I'll try this later -- I don't know if Vegas will eliminate every other frame, or if Vegas will combine/interpolate 2 frames into one to convert from 60 to 30. Converting to 24p is even more complicated. There are third party tools which are available for performing frame rate conversions, although I've never tried any of them other than to convert/deinterlace 60i to 30p.

December 24th, 2007, 05:19 PM	#8
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	I could be wrong on this, but I think I recall hearing that there might be an issue with some 720 files in Vegas. Need to wait until Christmas is over. Though perhaps if DSE is reading this he might be able to chime in. So don't hold me to that as I don't know for certain.

December 26th, 2007, 12:23 PM	#11
John Hess New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 19	Okay, this is just an uneducated guess, but I think the audio is encoded in the .BIM file - not in the MP4 file. My reasoning is if you compare the size of the BIM file to the MP4 - it looks like an MP2 and WAV file for making DVDs. Although the XML does point to the audio in the MP4, it also points to the BIM file as if it were a clip: <metastream src="./083_0006_01R01.BIM" type="cameraMeta" clipBegin="smpte-60-drop=00:00:00:00" clipEnd="smpte-60-drop=00:01:14:08"/> And with all my experience in PPro 3, any time I drop in an MP4, there's no audio...

December 26th, 2007, 12:54 PM	#12
Bernard Racelis Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 82	John, I don't think the BIM file (4,616,192 byes) is large enough to hold 1 min 14 sec of uncompressed audio (PCM).

December 29th, 2007, 11:52 AM	#14
Bernard Racelis Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 82	Back to my original query... Can someone please try to import this 720p60 MXF file into Vegas ? http://www.palsomedia.com/ex1_test/ex1_720p60.mxf (65MB) The clip plays with fine in VLC media player, but in Vegas 8.0a there's no audio.

December 29th, 2007, 12:46 PM	#15
Bill Spence Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 29	Bernard, I downloaded and tried your clip in both Vegas 8a and 7d. The file loaded just fine into both versions of Vegas and the video playback was fine. The properties of the file show that audio was included with the video, and dropping the clip into the timeline created both an audio and video track, but the audio is just a straight line. So either it was muted during recording, was switched off because of the way you had your mics connected, or you simply can't record audio at 60p ??? Hope this helps.