Green Screen + EX?

Steven Thomas · December 24th, 2007, 12:27 PM

Andrew, yes it is similar to converting to ProRes422 in FCP.
I imagine he capture to SxS 35mb, then brought it in and converted to Cineform.

John Hess · December 24th, 2007, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Wilson

What platform is that? Is it similar to converting to ProRes422 in FCP?

Since he shot it outdoors, that pretty much guarantees that the footage was recorded to the SxS card and we not looking at a HD-SDI capture workflow, right?

Do you have a wafian you're not telling us about?

I didn't even know what a Wafian is until I looked it up... and then I realized I knew what it was already.

Panasonic really has brainwashed people into thinking only their 4:2:2 cameras are capable of a clean key... Now I did run this through Prospect which converts the footage from 4:2:0 8 bit to 4:2:2 10 bit and I imagine that helps pull a better key.

Okay so I tried to push the PME-EX1 even further on this next test. This is done outdoors in the afternoon on a clear day. This is a tough key for any camera to do and I think the EX1 pulls it off decently. There was a lot of green spill on the lion shot so I did garbage matte some of it...

http://gospeljohn.net/webpages/EX1GreenTest2.html

Leonard Levy · December 24th, 2007, 08:25 PM

Pretty cute John,
My favorite is the Lion - very clean as far as my uninformed eyes can tell.
Great music.
- Lenny

Steven Thomas · December 24th, 2007, 09:28 PM

John, the problem is the footage is so heavily compressed it's makes it hard to tell if it's decent.

Can you repost at a higher data rate?

thxs

Leonard Levy · December 24th, 2007, 10:06 PM

Just a thought but if you have shots without the zoom it might do better on the web.

Lenny

John Hess · December 25th, 2007, 03:25 AM

You guys certainly do ask a lot! :)

The data rate is 1500 kps - and the whole zoom thing was to see how the program handled moving images (because stills can be done easily all day long and I already did that in a previous test). Pause the video if you want to see a still shot... I can't make out any JPEG artifacting in the compression - it's virtually perfect. The key with the sprig when in close up looks almost perfect to me.

The lion one you see a considerable amount of noise on the black chair part - ignore that (it's not compression artifacting, it's considerable green spill from the screen) and focus on the hair. That one was tough because the sun was setting fast and I had to pull off a shot as quick as I can.

But that last shot is a demo of shooting chromakey footage in horrendous conditions. RED camera, the PMW-EX1 ain't... but I personally think this camera (with Cineform) performs admirably.

I am extremely biased though.

Next, I'll have to try controlled lighting.

Eric Peltier · March 20th, 2008, 06:37 PM

I'm sorry, but am I missing something here, both keys look terrible, is this the compression artifact or just a bad key. How can you guys tell ?
Thanks for posting the clips john, but any chance you could post a High rez still.

Collis Davis · March 24th, 2008, 07:43 AM

Eric,

Frankly, I thought John's keys looked quite good. If you're going to criticize someone's efforts, how about substantiating what you're talking about. To just make mere summary statements is unhelpful. Better yet, show us a superior example that supports your standard of a proper key.

Collis Davis

Eric Peltier · March 24th, 2008, 11:52 AM

Apologies to all, I did not meant to criticize. I guess when I read my post now , I see how it might have been interpreted, looks like I got frustrated researching whether the EX1 is a good camera to do Green screen or not.
But looking at the clips again this morning, I find it really hard to judge whether the key is good or not.
I valued the time and energy everyone spends here and I know how much time it takes to run tests let alone post results etc...
We have a green screen shoot next week, where I'll be able to do side by side comparisons with the 2 EX1 output modes (4.2.2 HDSI out, 4.2.0 express card) and HVX200, I'll be happy to post stills from the shoot.
so again, no hard feeling.

Matt Davis · March 24th, 2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Peltier

Apologies to all, I did not meant to criticize. I guess when I read my post now , I see how it might have been interpreted, looks like I got frustrated researching whether the EX1 is a good camera to do Green screen or not.

I saw stuff too. There was a zoom-in where there was extra luminance of the crumpled green screen that was part of the key. And the rest.

But having pulled keys off a wide variety of DVCAM footage shot in many varied situations, I am happy about the EX1's chromakey footage. We can debate 4:2:2 vs 4:2:2, HDV vs DVCPro-HD, but with great keying software like DV Matte Pro and Zmatte, the lens and the pixels (downsampled in the final comp) play far more of a part IMHO.

Jeremy Hughes · March 25th, 2008, 02:21 PM

You can see a key I had to setup superfast at the very beginning of my demo reel: http://elevatepictures.com/index.php?page=reel

I had just gotten the EX1 - shot 1080 24p HQ on a very unevenly lit background. I was able to pull it easier however I will say than some footage I had to key not too long ago coming off BETACAM. I had very little noise. That helped a ton.

Next time I shoot, I'll make sure I crank the shutter speed much higher and also take better use of rimlighting with some magenta gels. I didnt even rimlight that shot which was a killer. I think it works well overall though, convert it into an interframe bf keying though.

March 20th, 2008, 06:37 PM	#22
Eric Peltier Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: San Francisco/Paris Posts: 121	I'm sorry, but am I missing something here, both keys look terrible, is this the compression artifact or just a bad key. How can you guys tell ? Thanks for posting the clips john, but any chance you could post a High rez still. __________________ Sights Sounds Stories www.tinboxtwo.com www.reardenstudios.com

March 24th, 2008, 07:43 AM	#23
Collis Davis Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Metro Manila, Philippines Posts: 60	John's keys footage Eric, Frankly, I thought John's keys looked quite good. If you're going to criticize someone's efforts, how about substantiating what you're talking about. To just make mere summary statements is unhelpful. Better yet, show us a superior example that supports your standard of a proper key. Collis Davis __________________ Collis H. Davis, Jr. Okara Video Philippines

March 24th, 2008, 11:52 AM	#24
Eric Peltier Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: San Francisco/Paris Posts: 121	Apologies to all, I did not meant to criticize. I guess when I read my post now , I see how it might have been interpreted, looks like I got frustrated researching whether the EX1 is a good camera to do Green screen or not. But looking at the clips again this morning, I find it really hard to judge whether the key is good or not. I valued the time and energy everyone spends here and I know how much time it takes to run tests let alone post results etc... We have a green screen shoot next week, where I'll be able to do side by side comparisons with the 2 EX1 output modes (4.2.2 HDSI out, 4.2.0 express card) and HVX200, I'll be happy to post stills from the shoot. so again, no hard feeling. __________________ Sights Sounds Stories www.tinboxtwo.com www.reardenstudios.com

March 25th, 2008, 02:21 PM	#26
Jeremy Hughes Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 276 Images: 2	You can see a key I had to setup superfast at the very beginning of my demo reel: http://elevatepictures.com/index.php?page=reel I had just gotten the EX1 - shot 1080 24p HQ on a very unevenly lit background. I was able to pull it easier however I will say than some footage I had to key not too long ago coming off BETACAM. I had very little noise. That helped a ton. Next time I shoot, I'll make sure I crank the shutter speed much higher and also take better use of rimlighting with some magenta gels. I didnt even rimlight that shot which was a killer. I think it works well overall though, convert it into an interframe bf keying though. __________________ www.elevate-m.com filmvideostuff.blogspot.com

December 24th, 2007, 12:27 PM	#16
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Andrew, yes it is similar to converting to ProRes422 in FCP. I imagine he capture to SxS 35mb, then brought it in and converted to Cineform.

December 24th, 2007, 08:25 PM	#18
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Pretty cute John, My favorite is the Lion - very clean as far as my uninformed eyes can tell. Great music. - Lenny

December 24th, 2007, 09:28 PM	#19
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	John, the problem is the footage is so heavily compressed it's makes it hard to tell if it's decent. Can you repost at a higher data rate? thxs

December 24th, 2007, 10:06 PM	#20
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Just a thought but if you have shots without the zoom it might do better on the web. Lenny

December 25th, 2007, 03:25 AM	#21
John Hess New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 19	You guys certainly do ask a lot! :) The data rate is 1500 kps - and the whole zoom thing was to see how the program handled moving images (because stills can be done easily all day long and I already did that in a previous test). Pause the video if you want to see a still shot... I can't make out any JPEG artifacting in the compression - it's virtually perfect. The key with the sprig when in close up looks almost perfect to me. The lion one you see a considerable amount of noise on the black chair part - ignore that (it's not compression artifacting, it's considerable green spill from the screen) and focus on the hair. That one was tough because the sun was setting fast and I had to pull off a shot as quick as I can. But that last shot is a demo of shooting chromakey footage in horrendous conditions. RED camera, the PMW-EX1 ain't... but I personally think this camera (with Cineform) performs admirably. I am extremely biased though. Next, I'll have to try controlled lighting.