XDCAM EX1 on the road blog

Ray Bell · July 2nd, 2008, 01:34 PM

Well, It doesn't seem to be taking long at all....

There is a thread over at the Letus site where there is a claim of a " Ultimate like " adaptor
coming out of Europe for around $2000 soon...

The poster does say its not quite the Ultimate but simular methodology...

I'm sure everyone in the adaptor industry is disecting the Ultimate methods and will soon
come running...

Thats competition :-)

I have to agree with Steves post...

Sell 200 at $4500 = $900,000, or sell 2000 at $1800 = $3,600,000

not that they are greedy or anything

Phil Bloom · July 2nd, 2008, 01:35 PM

Dennis,
Am saddened to read your post.After reading all my posts and helping out anyone who asks. Would I reallly put my name to a product because of "freebies"?
I have spent so much money on gear in the past year, all at full price and given my assesment of that gear to you guys.

For the past two months I have been lucky enough to have been evaluating a pre production ultimate. If this adaptor was a pile of crap I would say so. My word has never been or ever will be compromised by anything. Phil

Tom Roper · July 2nd, 2008, 01:48 PM

The market will decide the worth of this product. It is worth every cent a buyer is willing to pay, and not a penny more!

The entitlement sentiment is not realistic, nor is the price of admission argument (men versus boys), nor is the expectation that it could never go down in price. If it's really that good, it will encourage competition. Right now, it doesn't have any.

Benjamin Eckstein · July 2nd, 2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

The market will decide the worth of this product. It is worth every cent a buyer is willing to pay, and not a penny more!

The entitlement sentiment is not realistic, nor is the price of admission argument (men versus boys), nor is the expectation that it could never go down in price. If it's really that good, it will encourage competition. Right now, it doesn't have any.

Oh come on, if all this gear was cheap enough for all of us to afford that wouldn't help the profession at all. Phil's point about it becoming viable "professional" gear because of the price is true. That, I think, is why many rental houses don't carry Extremes, Brevis', etc. Buy an Ultimate, and if it is the ultimate, in fact, you will have a great piece of gear that can be rented out.

BE

Gabriel Florit · July 2nd, 2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

Dennis,
Am saddened to read your post.After reading all my posts and helping out anyone who asks. Would I reallly put my name to a product because of "freebies"?
I have spent so much money on gear in the past year, all at full price and given my assesment of that gear to you guys.

For the past two months I have been lucky enough to have been evaluating a pre production ultimate. If this adaptor was a pile of crap I would say so. My word has never been or ever will be compromised by anything. Phil

Don't stop Phil! You have been an invaluable asset to this community. I am sure there's thousands of people that have greatly benefited from your thorough gear reviews, jaw-dropping beautiful footage, picture profiles, etc. I for one am always excited - like a kid on Christmas day - when I see you've posted a new entry on your blog. Keep up the good work, and please ignore the critics. What you're giving us is truly priceless!!!

ps. I bought the EX1 because of your footage. I may buy the Ultimate if you keep making videos... would love to see another EX1/Ultimate piece!

Sebastien Thomas · July 2nd, 2008, 02:50 PM

we will never thank phil enough for what he is giving to the community. If you don't trust his neutrality, don't listen to him. Don't come here saying such things if you haven't read all the posts he made the last few years, which are always right, brilliant and balanced.

Phil, people here love your work, trust you and count on you to go on. Thank you phil !

Dennis Joseph · July 2nd, 2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

Dennis,
Am saddened to read your post.After reading all my posts and helping out anyone who asks. Would I reallly put my name to a product because of "freebies"?
I have spent so much money on gear in the past year, all at full price and given my assesment of that gear to you guys.

For the past two months I have been lucky enough to have been evaluating a pre production ultimate. If this adaptor was a pile of crap I would say so. My word has never been or ever will be compromised by anything. Phil

Phil,

I hope you did not take it the wrong way. I have visted and watched all your reviews and loved every one of them. Your contributions are much appreciated.

I'm speaking strictly on opinion. no 2 people can look at the same thing in the same exact way. You see the ultimate and you say that it is worth $4,500 where as I think otherwise. It's just opinion. Nothing wrong with you as a cinemetographer or person. I've said time after time, I love your work.

If I will be purchasing a a camera for 7k, then an 35mm adapter for 5 k and another 5k for nice cinema prime lenses... I might as well get a red one or scarlet to be honest with you.

Phil Bloom · July 2nd, 2008, 04:38 PM

Honestly I would buy the Ultimate in a heartbeat.

I have struggled for 18 months with the limitations of 35mm adaptors. I have bought a Redrock M2, Letus Flip Enhanced, 3 Brevis, 5 diffusers for the Brevis and two Ultimate Extremes. All full price. Every one has a limitation. The Ultimate as far as I have seen has none, apart from the price. Now add up how much I have spent on adaptors and look at the price of the Ultimate. That is one seriously good bargain.

You seem to forget, in fact most of us forget just how spoilt we have become with what we can buy now for so little. When I first started in the business there were no small cameras. The Betacam Sp cost £50,000. Everything was crazy money. Broadcast stuff still can be crazy money, hence I still have no wide angle for my F350 as it would cost £12,000.

With this $4,500 piece of equipment I can create images i never dreamt of and yet still operate like a proper camera. No worries about shutter, now worries about f-stop. It is ironic that the more expensive, pro version of the Letus is better for beginners as it is harder to f*** up. Even as recently as Tokyo I made mistakes with the Extreme, stopping down too much. It happens.

Letus could have charged more and still sold a bucketful. People are forgetting there are two markets at work here. The enthusiast, populated by many people on this forum and the professional. As has been pointed out many pros do not buy gear they rent. This adaptor is aimed at the rental market yet that market still thinks it is too cheap to succeed. It's a crazy situation.

All i know is I adore this adaptor. I have never shot such good stuff as I do with this. ALso, I am sure the competition will up it's game now. SGPro are bringing out the blade and Redrock are hard at work on the M3. Of course the better these get and the more expensive it becomes with r&d and parts that will be reflected in the price.

We have become spoilt with the bargains we can get, let's not forget one major thing here. What would you be saying if Letus hadn't brought out the Ultimate? Would you be complaining? No! Now if they brought out the Ultimate and discontinued the Extreme you would have ever right to complain and shout "GREEDY!" but they haven't.

Nothing has changed. You can still buy your extreme and I am sure they will continue to refine and improve it. I cannot imagine them wanting to alienate their user base!

Best,

Phil

Phil Bloom · July 2nd, 2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastien Thomas

we will never thank phil enough for what he is giving to the community. If you don't trust his neutrality, don't listen to him. Don't come here saying such things if you haven't read all the posts he made the last few years, which are always right, brilliant and balanced.

Phil, people here love your work, trust you and count on you to go on. Thank you phil !

Not stopping! But thanks chaps. Just a silly thing for Dennis to say. I know not everyone can afford the best. If we could we would all be shooting on Reds, or F35 etc... you need to make the best of what you have. If that is an HV20 on it's own, go for it. You can do wonders with everything if you put your mind to it!

Tom Roper · July 2nd, 2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

I know not everyone can afford the best. If we could we would all be shooting on Reds, or F35 etc... you need to make the best of what you have. If that is an HV20 on it's own, go for it. You can do wonders with everything if you put your mind to it!

I agree. Not everyone with the talent has the money, and not everyone with the money has the talent. That's why the price of admission is not a litmus test. Perhaps the concerns of the real pros could be managed not by the means test (price of the equipment) but by licensing and accreditation like every other profession.

Because it should be obvious that Letus would understandably be more interested in making money than setting the price of the ultimate high enough to keep the pretenders away from the gates of the profession. That's nonsense. Clearly they set the price high because as it's obvious to you, they made the ultimate leaps ahead of the competition, and it commands the price, by your judgments, a bargain.

Ray Bell · July 2nd, 2008, 07:11 PM

I'm betting that they set the price at this point because they know they have a very competative product in respect to the other suppliers of adaptors and they looked at the competition and said...

if they can charge that much, then we are going to charge that much because
we are now on equal ground or better than whats presently available at this moment.

I'm almost suprised at this stage that some companies like Sony or the like aren't bringing
out their own versions...

Phil Bloom · July 2nd, 2008, 07:33 PM

it is surprising that it is just independents making these products. You could imagine Canon or Nikon making one for their lenses. After all their optics are so good why wouldn't they?

Leonard Levy · July 2nd, 2008, 07:42 PM

Another vote for your work, your great blogs, and all the great info you've provided Phil. Somebody will always complain on these forums. My only complaint is that I missed you at NAB.

Lenny Levy

Alexander Kubalsky · July 2nd, 2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

it is surprising that it is just independents making these products. You could imagine Canon or Nikon making one for their lenses. After all their optics are so good why wouldn't they?

Yes, and I imagine with their resources they could make a static Ground Glass version which would be the cool.

Leonard Levy · July 2nd, 2008, 08:39 PM

Another vote for your work, your great blogs, and all the great info you've provided Phil. Somebody will always complain on these forums. My only complaint is that I missed you at NAB.

Lenny Levy

July 2nd, 2008, 01:35 PM	#557
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	Dennis, Am saddened to read your post.After reading all my posts and helping out anyone who asks. Would I reallly put my name to a product because of "freebies"? I have spent so much money on gear in the past year, all at full price and given my assesment of that gear to you guys. For the past two months I have been lucky enough to have been evaluating a pre production ultimate. If this adaptor was a pile of crap I would say so. My word has never been or ever will be compromised by anything. Phil __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

July 2nd, 2008, 02:50 PM	#561
Sebastien Thomas Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Paris, France Posts: 210	we will never thank phil enough for what he is giving to the community. If you don't trust his neutrality, don't listen to him. Don't come here saying such things if you haven't read all the posts he made the last few years, which are always right, brilliant and balanced. Phil, people here love your work, trust you and count on you to go on. Thank you phil ! __________________ DoP, Video/Camera assistant http://www.lecentre.net/blog

July 2nd, 2008, 04:38 PM	#563
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	Honestly I would buy the Ultimate in a heartbeat. I have struggled for 18 months with the limitations of 35mm adaptors. I have bought a Redrock M2, Letus Flip Enhanced, 3 Brevis, 5 diffusers for the Brevis and two Ultimate Extremes. All full price. Every one has a limitation. The Ultimate as far as I have seen has none, apart from the price. Now add up how much I have spent on adaptors and look at the price of the Ultimate. That is one seriously good bargain. You seem to forget, in fact most of us forget just how spoilt we have become with what we can buy now for so little. When I first started in the business there were no small cameras. The Betacam Sp cost £50,000. Everything was crazy money. Broadcast stuff still can be crazy money, hence I still have no wide angle for my F350 as it would cost £12,000. With this $4,500 piece of equipment I can create images i never dreamt of and yet still operate like a proper camera. No worries about shutter, now worries about f-stop. It is ironic that the more expensive, pro version of the Letus is better for beginners as it is harder to f*** up. Even as recently as Tokyo I made mistakes with the Extreme, stopping down too much. It happens. Letus could have charged more and still sold a bucketful. People are forgetting there are two markets at work here. The enthusiast, populated by many people on this forum and the professional. As has been pointed out many pros do not buy gear they rent. This adaptor is aimed at the rental market yet that market still thinks it is too cheap to succeed. It's a crazy situation. All i know is I adore this adaptor. I have never shot such good stuff as I do with this. ALso, I am sure the competition will up it's game now. SGPro are bringing out the blade and Redrock are hard at work on the M3. Of course the better these get and the more expensive it becomes with r&d and parts that will be reflected in the price. We have become spoilt with the bargains we can get, let's not forget one major thing here. What would you be saying if Letus hadn't brought out the Ultimate? Would you be complaining? No! Now if they brought out the Ultimate and discontinued the Extreme you would have ever right to complain and shout "GREEDY!" but they haven't. Nothing has changed. You can still buy your extreme and I am sure they will continue to refine and improve it. I cannot imagine them wanting to alienate their user base! Best, Phil __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

July 2nd, 2008, 07:33 PM	#567
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	it is surprising that it is just independents making these products. You could imagine Canon or Nikon making one for their lenses. After all their optics are so good why wouldn't they? __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

July 2nd, 2008, 01:34 PM	#556
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	Well, It doesn't seem to be taking long at all.... There is a thread over at the Letus site where there is a claim of a " Ultimate like " adaptor coming out of Europe for around $2000 soon... The poster does say its not quite the Ultimate but simular methodology... I'm sure everyone in the adaptor industry is disecting the Ultimate methods and will soon come running... Thats competition :-) I have to agree with Steves post... Sell 200 at $4500 = $900,000, or sell 2000 at $1800 = $3,600,000 not that they are greedy or anything

July 2nd, 2008, 01:48 PM	#558
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	The market will decide the worth of this product. It is worth every cent a buyer is willing to pay, and not a penny more! The entitlement sentiment is not realistic, nor is the price of admission argument (men versus boys), nor is the expectation that it could never go down in price. If it's really that good, it will encourage competition. Right now, it doesn't have any.

July 2nd, 2008, 07:11 PM	#566
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	I'm betting that they set the price at this point because they know they have a very competative product in respect to the other suppliers of adaptors and they looked at the competition and said... if they can charge that much, then we are going to charge that much because we are now on equal ground or better than whats presently available at this moment. I'm almost suprised at this stage that some companies like Sony or the like aren't bringing out their own versions...

July 2nd, 2008, 07:42 PM	#568
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Another vote for your work, your great blogs, and all the great info you've provided Phil. Somebody will always complain on these forums. My only complaint is that I missed you at NAB. Lenny Levy

July 2nd, 2008, 08:39 PM	#570
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Another vote for your work, your great blogs, and all the great info you've provided Phil. Somebody will always complain on these forums. My only complaint is that I missed you at NAB. Lenny Levy