Vignette problem

Robert Petersen · November 25th, 2007, 06:52 PM

Thanks for posting your test shots. They look very good. If the issue is due to OIS then it is not an issue to me; I never use OIS. Do you remember if you used OIS on the Tennis shots? Thanks again for spending the time to educate us.

John Hewat · November 25th, 2007, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Petersen

Thanks for posting your test shots. They look very good. If the issue is due to OIS then it is not an issue to me; I never use OIS. Do you remember if you used OIS on the Tennis shots? Thanks again for spending the time to educate us.

For event work it would be a huge issue. I'm hand held all the time at weddings and the OIS has saved my butt may a time.

Also, is OIS recommended for steadicam work? Or is it recommended to leave it off?

Duncan Craig · November 26th, 2007, 09:48 AM

I can't see why it has anything to do with OIS. The white wall zoom in shot posted above wouldn't give any information to the OIS system to cause problem this would it? It's gyroscopic correction isn't it?

It looks to my eyes like they tried to tweak a lens designed to work well with 1/3 inch chips on this, and it's just on the edge of acceptability for some. It seems that as the elements are moving around in the lens it's just hitting thresholds of vignetting.

Personally, I don't think I wouldn't find this a dealbreaker on real world pictures of normal subject matter. Also taking safe areas into account when working in broadcast. Web video and DVDs shown on LCDs could have an issue.

It's actually the case that I add vignette quite often, having a lens which already does it is a little odd.

Tom Hardwick · November 26th, 2007, 11:36 AM

OIS does indeed add greatly to the vignetting when it's working, and it's easily shown with a lot of wide-angle converters. I have a widie that that just clips about 4 pixels off the top corners of the frame. With OIS turned on and the camera panned quickly the vignetting is much more apparent.

Under water housings show the same thing - no vignetting while stationary, but quite noticeable when OIS is on and the camera's moving.

tom.

Eric Pascarelli · November 27th, 2007, 11:21 PM

Just got my camera and it also vignettes at about 10mm.

Top corners, both left and right side simultaneously.

I am beginning to think this is inherent in the camera's design.

Steven Thomas · November 27th, 2007, 11:27 PM

NOT GOOD NEWS!

There's been a couple cameras here that have not had this issue.
How bad is it?
Please provide a short clip.

I'm going to be bummed if my camera which I receive tomorrow has this issue!

My believe is there is an adjustment for this that Sony is NOT doing a good job making sure
this issue does not appear. Out of the four reported owners here, including yourself, two
have reported vignetting.

Eric Pascarelli · November 27th, 2007, 11:51 PM

I just did a test on a blank wall, in focus and it's *very* slight, but it's there.

Focus was close, near minimum (not macro).

I shot some test footage earlier with deeper focus and it was more pronounced. In both cases OIS was on.

I'll investigate more.

Steven Thomas · November 28th, 2007, 08:39 AM

OK, very slight sounds better than Paul's camera where it's very obvious.

Eric Pascarelli · November 28th, 2007, 10:50 AM

Here's what I found through a couple of quick tests:

Vignetting is worse at wider stops. This leads me to believe that this is something happening internally near the iris.

Vignetting is worse at deep focus.

Normally, vignetting caused in front of the lens (by filter or matte box obstruction, for example) is usually worse at tighter stops and shallower focus because the obstructing object is made sharper and more visible. Also, lenses technically get a bit wider at close focus a more creeps into frame. Pretty much the opposite is happening here.

I am awaiting permission to post attachments and I will put some stills up.

Steven Thomas · November 28th, 2007, 10:59 AM

Eric,

Whose permission do you need?

Also, do you plan on returning, or living with this issue.
If it were mine, knowing that there are owners such as Chris who do not have vignetting problems, I'm not sure If I would keep it.

I guess that would depend on how bad it is and how easy it can be avoided.

Eric Pascarelli · November 28th, 2007, 11:47 AM

I guess I need Chris' permission. It says I "may not post attachments."

I will not return the camera because of it. I will hope for a fix, but it's not a deal breaker.

Vince Gaffney · November 28th, 2007, 11:52 AM

Eric,

Is the problem evident in macro? If so, at what stops? I plan on using the camera with a redrock M2 35mm adapter. thanks

vince

Steven Thomas · November 28th, 2007, 01:09 PM

Testing my camera right now.
NO vignetting issue whatsoever. Using 1920x1080 24" external monitor. Tried all different combos including focus distance which one owner mention it was worse when closer to infinite. Well, I tried every possibility. Not the slightest vignetting.

My jaw hit the ground with the sensitivity. For those who question this, be prepared to be "blown away" with how fast this thing is. It made my room with natural light peaking through with the blinds almost closed, look far brighter than what my eyes were seeing with no noise! Unreal.

So far. very positive. Although the component outputs are near the bottom right. I had to take it off the tripod to access them.

Bill Spence · November 28th, 2007, 01:13 PM

Eric, you mentioned that you are having vignetting issues with the OIS on. You haven't mentioned yet if it improves when the OIS is off. Could you check to see if the effect is worse due to the OIS?

Eric Pascarelli · November 28th, 2007, 01:16 PM

Steven,

Does your monitor have any cutoff on the sides? Is it underscanned?

Try capturing some footage and watch it in an NLE, where you can see the whole frame, just to be sure.

November 25th, 2007, 06:52 PM	#121
Robert Petersen Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Girard, Ohio Posts: 103	Thanks for posting your test shots. They look very good. If the issue is due to OIS then it is not an issue to me; I never use OIS. Do you remember if you used OIS on the Tennis shots? Thanks again for spending the time to educate us.

November 26th, 2007, 09:48 AM	#123
Duncan Craig Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 660 Images: 10	I can't see why it has anything to do with OIS. The white wall zoom in shot posted above wouldn't give any information to the OIS system to cause problem this would it? It's gyroscopic correction isn't it? It looks to my eyes like they tried to tweak a lens designed to work well with 1/3 inch chips on this, and it's just on the edge of acceptability for some. It seems that as the elements are moving around in the lens it's just hitting thresholds of vignetting. Personally, I don't think I wouldn't find this a dealbreaker on real world pictures of normal subject matter. Also taking safe areas into account when working in broadcast. Web video and DVDs shown on LCDs could have an issue. It's actually the case that I add vignette quite often, having a lens which already does it is a little odd.

November 26th, 2007, 11:36 AM	#124
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	OIS does indeed add greatly to the vignetting when it's working, and it's easily shown with a lot of wide-angle converters. I have a widie that that just clips about 4 pixels off the top corners of the frame. With OIS turned on and the camera panned quickly the vignetting is much more apparent. Under water housings show the same thing - no vignetting while stationary, but quite noticeable when OIS is on and the camera's moving. tom.

November 27th, 2007, 11:21 PM	#125
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	Just got my camera and it also vignettes at about 10mm. Top corners, both left and right side simultaneously. I am beginning to think this is inherent in the camera's design.

November 27th, 2007, 11:27 PM	#126
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	NOT GOOD NEWS! There's been a couple cameras here that have not had this issue. How bad is it? Please provide a short clip. I'm going to be bummed if my camera which I receive tomorrow has this issue! My believe is there is an adjustment for this that Sony is NOT doing a good job making sure this issue does not appear. Out of the four reported owners here, including yourself, two have reported vignetting.

November 27th, 2007, 11:51 PM	#127
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	I just did a test on a blank wall, in focus and it's very slight, but it's there. Focus was close, near minimum (not macro). I shot some test footage earlier with deeper focus and it was more pronounced. In both cases OIS was on. I'll investigate more.

November 28th, 2007, 08:39 AM	#128
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	OK, very slight sounds better than Paul's camera where it's very obvious.

November 28th, 2007, 10:50 AM	#129
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	Here's what I found through a couple of quick tests: Vignetting is worse at wider stops. This leads me to believe that this is something happening internally near the iris. Vignetting is worse at deep focus. Normally, vignetting caused in front of the lens (by filter or matte box obstruction, for example) is usually worse at tighter stops and shallower focus because the obstructing object is made sharper and more visible. Also, lenses technically get a bit wider at close focus a more creeps into frame. Pretty much the opposite is happening here. I am awaiting permission to post attachments and I will put some stills up.

November 28th, 2007, 10:59 AM	#130
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Eric, Whose permission do you need? Also, do you plan on returning, or living with this issue. If it were mine, knowing that there are owners such as Chris who do not have vignetting problems, I'm not sure If I would keep it. I guess that would depend on how bad it is and how easy it can be avoided.

November 28th, 2007, 11:47 AM	#131
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	I guess I need Chris' permission. It says I "may not post attachments." I will not return the camera because of it. I will hope for a fix, but it's not a deal breaker.

November 28th, 2007, 11:52 AM	#132
Vince Gaffney Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 146	Eric, Is the problem evident in macro? If so, at what stops? I plan on using the camera with a redrock M2 35mm adapter. thanks vince

November 28th, 2007, 01:09 PM	#133
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Testing my camera right now. NO vignetting issue whatsoever. Using 1920x1080 24" external monitor. Tried all different combos including focus distance which one owner mention it was worse when closer to infinite. Well, I tried every possibility. Not the slightest vignetting. My jaw hit the ground with the sensitivity. For those who question this, be prepared to be "blown away" with how fast this thing is. It made my room with natural light peaking through with the blinds almost closed, look far brighter than what my eyes were seeing with no noise! Unreal. So far. very positive. Although the component outputs are near the bottom right. I had to take it off the tripod to access them.

November 28th, 2007, 01:13 PM	#134
Bill Spence Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 29	Eric, you mentioned that you are having vignetting issues with the OIS on. You haven't mentioned yet if it improves when the OIS is off. Could you check to see if the effect is worse due to the OIS?

November 28th, 2007, 01:16 PM	#135
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	Steven, Does your monitor have any cutoff on the sides? Is it underscanned? Try capturing some footage and watch it in an NLE, where you can see the whole frame, just to be sure.