Vignette problem

Robert Petersen · November 24th, 2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

Possible, but can you provide the actual frame grabs. This type of info really doesn't mean much to anyone without supporting it.

I tried to get screen grabs, but I can't go frame by frame in the VLC player. I couldn't get enough control to grab frames that would show the problem. I viewed the video in slow motion on a High Def LCD TV, and you can see the shadow creep in and out of the image as the camera accelerates and decelerates through a left to right pan. I'm hoping that someone will run some tests with their EX1 and post the tests here.

Tom Hardwick · November 25th, 2007, 08:35 AM

If this is a genuine case of the image rectangle being bigger than the image circle from which it's cut, then when OIS is turned on and the camera is moving this will make the situation worse - a lot worse. Could be worth going down the timeline of a rapidly moving camera shot and seeing if the vignette worsens.

tom.

Steven Thomas · November 25th, 2007, 08:56 AM

Well, rest assure I will test for this the first day I get it (end of next week).
I will also rapidly pan the cam while viewing a wall with no other stuctures using OIS on, and off. I'll try it at four different focal lengths, from wide to tele.

I'm still not seeing anything convincing in the tennis footage. Also, the few that do own the camera on this forum, other than paul, have not mentioned any issues.

Laurent Delaroziere · November 25th, 2007, 08:58 AM

i see it on the tennis footages, upper left and right corner:

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/F...cty=US&lang=en

Piotr Wozniacki · November 25th, 2007, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Petersen

I tried to get screen grabs, but I can't go frame by frame in the VLC player. I couldn't get enough control to grab frames that would show the problem. I viewed the video in slow motion on a High Def LCD TV, and you can see the shadow creep in and out of the image as the camera accelerates and decelerates through a left to right pan. I'm hoping that someone will run some tests with their EX1 and post the tests here.

I have checked the fastest, whip pans of the tennis footage, and indeed there is what can be considered similar to Paul's findings, in the upper left corner of the screen - see my post here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....6&postcount=51

Steven Thomas · November 25th, 2007, 09:33 AM

If anything, it does appear there is some vignetting in Laurent's example. Since the camera was not really moving during this shot, it would of been nice if he actually performed some simple tests for us.

I'm not sure why he would not. If I owned the camera, I'd surely want to know its limitations.

Well, we'll know soon for sure.

Steven Thomas · November 25th, 2007, 10:25 AM

Hmmmm.....
Maybe we have an issue with these cams that's more than just a couple.
I'm now concerned. Hopefully they can be fixed. I find it VERY hard to believe that a camera that cost almost $7,000.00 USD would have this issue. Heck, I've seen camcorders that cost $300 not have this issue.

Check it out..
http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/showthrea...t=11627&page=2

Steven Thomas · November 25th, 2007, 11:07 AM

It appears from one of the original frame grab posts from a pre-production models is showing some vignetting in the top left corner.... hmmmm.
http://www.dvinfo.net/media/xdcamex/...7;20720p25.tix

Andreas Johansson · November 25th, 2007, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

Thanks Chris,
I'm not sure why he was hesitant with your offer.

Since he lost his host, maybe he'll change his mind

Well thats not going to happen. I have my reasons for it.

And to all people mirroring my files, I wold appreciate if you ask me first but the answer will probably be, no please don't.

But to make you happier again I have put up some Vignette test shots. And I have new hosting, so get them while they last. This is supposed to be a free traffic host again but we will have to see about that since the demand for the other files was a bit crazy.

The old files may be online soon if I have time to do it. The Tennis footage will not be online again and there is a reason for it to.

ex.bolanski.com

Ola Christoffersson · November 25th, 2007, 01:48 PM

Andreas - I had a look at the 1080p-version and I cannot see any problems. If there are any they are definately acceptable to me! Do you know if this was the same camera that you used shooting the tennis footage? Someone reported a few frames with vignetting suggesting that it might be related to the OIS.

/ola

Piotr Wozniacki · November 25th, 2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

It appears from one of the original frame grab posts from a pre-production models is showing some vignetting in the top left corner.... hmmmm.
http://www.dvinfo.net/media/xdcamex/...g%20720p25.tix

Heck, looks like you are right! It shows exactly the same flaw!

Steven Thomas · November 25th, 2007, 02:17 PM

Yes, then again, it was the pre-production cam.
Looking at Andreas vignette test files posted today, I do not see any issues.
It would of also been nice if there tests files done the same way while the camera was panned (Aperture wide open, OIS on). Also, I'm not sure where the aperture was set during his tests.

Having said that, he owns the cameras and says he's not seeing an issue.
That's good enough for me. I will do some tests with my cam next week and post them here.

Eric Pascarelli · November 25th, 2007, 02:20 PM

(I posted this on the footage thread but thought it was more appropriate for this thread instead, so pardon the double posting)

About 4 to 5 seconds into Andreas' 1080p25 clip there is a very slight darkening in the upper left corner. Likewise in the 720 clip (which zooms out rather than in) there is the same slight darkening toward the wide side.

Both of these seem to happen at the same focal length on the lens. It seems to be a less severe version of what Paul Joy is describing, in that it does not happen at either zoom extreme, but at a point in the middle, close to the wide side.

This slight darkening, combined with OIS and different aperture or focus settings could be what's cousing the more extreme cases.

What's happening on Andreas' camera is perfectly acceptable to me, and I won't cancel my order over it. On a film camera this would be considered within spec (I've seen much worse than that make it to the big screen). But if it got much more extreme than that I would start to get concerned.

Daniel Weber · November 25th, 2007, 02:56 PM

Are people seeing the vignette problem when using OIS while on a tripod?

With my Z1, I get much better footage when the OIS is turned off while on a tripod. In fact the manual states to turn of OIS while on a tripod.

Has anyone tried shooting without the OIS and seeing if the problem still exists?

Daniel Weber

Andreas Johansson · November 25th, 2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ola Christoffersson

Andreas - I had a look at the 1080p-version and I cannot see any problems. If there are any they are definately acceptable to me! Do you know if this was the same camera that you used shooting the tennis footage? Someone reported a few frames with vignetting suggesting that it might be related to the OIS.

/ola

I don't know what camera this was but I can check. When I look at it on a computer screen I don't see it but when I look at it via HD-SDI on our 24" Jvc monitor I think there might be something there.

It's really hard to tell but we are quite happy with the cameras and are going to use them in education so we don't see this as a problem for us.

November 25th, 2007, 08:58 AM	#109
Laurent Delaroziere New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Paris France Posts: 9	grab i see it on the tennis footages, upper left and right corner: http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/F...cty=US&lang=en

November 25th, 2007, 08:35 AM	#107
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	If this is a genuine case of the image rectangle being bigger than the image circle from which it's cut, then when OIS is turned on and the camera is moving this will make the situation worse - a lot worse. Could be worth going down the timeline of a rapidly moving camera shot and seeing if the vignette worsens. tom.

November 25th, 2007, 08:56 AM	#108
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Well, rest assure I will test for this the first day I get it (end of next week). I will also rapidly pan the cam while viewing a wall with no other stuctures using OIS on, and off. I'll try it at four different focal lengths, from wide to tele. I'm still not seeing anything convincing in the tennis footage. Also, the few that do own the camera on this forum, other than paul, have not mentioned any issues.

November 25th, 2007, 09:33 AM	#111
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	If anything, it does appear there is some vignetting in Laurent's example. Since the camera was not really moving during this shot, it would of been nice if he actually performed some simple tests for us. I'm not sure why he would not. If I owned the camera, I'd surely want to know its limitations. Well, we'll know soon for sure.

November 25th, 2007, 10:25 AM	#112
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Hmmmm..... Maybe we have an issue with these cams that's more than just a couple. I'm now concerned. Hopefully they can be fixed. I find it VERY hard to believe that a camera that cost almost $7,000.00 USD would have this issue. Heck, I've seen camcorders that cost $300 not have this issue. Check it out.. http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/showthrea...t=11627&page=2

November 25th, 2007, 11:07 AM	#113
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	It appears from one of the original frame grab posts from a pre-production models is showing some vignetting in the top left corner.... hmmmm. http://www.dvinfo.net/media/xdcamex/...7;20720p25.tix

November 25th, 2007, 01:48 PM	#115
Ola Christoffersson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 462	Andreas - I had a look at the 1080p-version and I cannot see any problems. If there are any they are definately acceptable to me! Do you know if this was the same camera that you used shooting the tennis footage? Someone reported a few frames with vignetting suggesting that it might be related to the OIS. /ola

November 25th, 2007, 02:17 PM	#117
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Yes, then again, it was the pre-production cam. Looking at Andreas vignette test files posted today, I do not see any issues. It would of also been nice if there tests files done the same way while the camera was panned (Aperture wide open, OIS on). Also, I'm not sure where the aperture was set during his tests. Having said that, he owns the cameras and says he's not seeing an issue. That's good enough for me. I will do some tests with my cam next week and post them here.

November 25th, 2007, 02:20 PM	#118
Eric Pascarelli Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 498	(I posted this on the footage thread but thought it was more appropriate for this thread instead, so pardon the double posting) About 4 to 5 seconds into Andreas' 1080p25 clip there is a very slight darkening in the upper left corner. Likewise in the 720 clip (which zooms out rather than in) there is the same slight darkening toward the wide side. Both of these seem to happen at the same focal length on the lens. It seems to be a less severe version of what Paul Joy is describing, in that it does not happen at either zoom extreme, but at a point in the middle, close to the wide side. This slight darkening, combined with OIS and different aperture or focus settings could be what's cousing the more extreme cases. What's happening on Andreas' camera is perfectly acceptable to me, and I won't cancel my order over it. On a film camera this would be considered within spec (I've seen much worse than that make it to the big screen). But if it got much more extreme than that I would start to get concerned.

November 25th, 2007, 02:56 PM	#119
Daniel Weber Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 696	Are people seeing the vignette problem when using OIS while on a tripod? With my Z1, I get much better footage when the OIS is turned off while on a tripod. In fact the manual states to turn of OIS while on a tripod. Has anyone tried shooting without the OIS and seeing if the problem still exists? Daniel Weber